Many of the professional cars of this era had window shades that rolled down into the doors and inside panels of the rear windows.
JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction
- Thread starter Tony Blair
- Start date
Many of the professional cars of this era had window shades that rolled down into the doors and inside panels of the rear windows.
That was the Vanishade option by Miller Meteor... Superior didn't have this type of option that I have ever seen.
When my buddy and I took those photos in Pensacola, we took a real good look at those cars inside and out. There were no shades, curtains or any other kind of window covering in them. We are talking "bare bones" minimum cars here.
The one thing I did notice in comparing the photos of the 1963 to the 1964's that I took are the additional lights on the roof. The "lollipops" look tacky as hell, and the spotlight jammed through the roof kinda blows, but then again they weren't my cars. Well at least not directly.
The one thing I did notice in comparing the photos of the 1963 to the 1964's that I took are the additional lights on the roof. The "lollipops" look tacky as hell, and the spotlight jammed through the roof kinda blows, but then again they weren't my cars. Well at least not directly.
Dan Brintlinger
PCS Member
US Navy -- Congressman Michel
In 1988, I wrote to my then-Congressman Bob Michel, asking if he could find out what happened to the JFK ambulance. He wrote me back, and enclosed a copy of the reply from the Navy, stating that: the Navy had donated the ambulance to the Kennedy Library in 1980. At some time after that, the library asked for permission to crush the unit. Permission was granted by the "Archivist of the United States" to do so, and the Navy understood that the 63 Superior was destroyed.
I contacted a representative of the the co. promoting the auction, and said I doubted the authenticity of the ad. She asked for my proof, and I have emailed the letter (from the Navy to my Congressman) to her. She emailed me that she has sent it on to Barrett-Jackson.
A copy of this letter was re-printed in "The Professional Car" some time back, but I don't remember how long ago.
TV coverage of the unit at Andrews AFB show a driver-side spotlight, but the Barrett-Jackson ad I've seen isn't too clear. Also, the door lettering is clearly "new", not original.
I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens........................
In 1988, I wrote to my then-Congressman Bob Michel, asking if he could find out what happened to the JFK ambulance. He wrote me back, and enclosed a copy of the reply from the Navy, stating that: the Navy had donated the ambulance to the Kennedy Library in 1980. At some time after that, the library asked for permission to crush the unit. Permission was granted by the "Archivist of the United States" to do so, and the Navy understood that the 63 Superior was destroyed.
I contacted a representative of the the co. promoting the auction, and said I doubted the authenticity of the ad. She asked for my proof, and I have emailed the letter (from the Navy to my Congressman) to her. She emailed me that she has sent it on to Barrett-Jackson.
A copy of this letter was re-printed in "The Professional Car" some time back, but I don't remember how long ago.
TV coverage of the unit at Andrews AFB show a driver-side spotlight, but the Barrett-Jackson ad I've seen isn't too clear. Also, the door lettering is clearly "new", not original.
I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens........................
Dan Brintlinger
PCS Member
I think I replied to the wrong post
Please read my JFK Congressman Michel post, but I think it is a reply to another post on this site............Dan Brintlinger
Please read my JFK Congressman Michel post, but I think it is a reply to another post on this site............Dan Brintlinger
Brintliger's Letter
Dan's letter to the Editor appeared in THE PCS MAIL BAG , PCS Issue 51, page 19, First Quarter 1989.
Dan's letter to the Editor appeared in THE PCS MAIL BAG , PCS Issue 51, page 19, First Quarter 1989.
Kent Dorsey
PCS Member / Funeral Director
This thread is still incredibly interesting each day, and what other club/website is there more qualified to want to discuss this issue? I am glad the discussion continues...
In the 4th photo of the Barrett Jackson ad that shows the rear interior and stretcher, can anyone venture a guess at what is monogrammed on that stretcher sheet? I can't tell...
In the 4th photo of the Barrett Jackson ad that shows the rear interior and stretcher, can anyone venture a guess at what is monogrammed on that stretcher sheet? I can't tell...
Considering that the original VIN (vehicle identification number) plate is attached with Phillips head screws, and this isn't how GM installed the VIN on the cowl, I believe that we will only get a true answer to the question if the "hidden" VIN is compared with the stamped VIN. I know that as early as 1960 General Motors was stamping the frame with the VIN. I had to remove the front cross member on my 1962 Chevrolet Corvair to access the "hidden" VIN, so I know for a fact that GM did do a second stamping on the cars. Another thing that I would like to see a picture of is the original GM data plate that is riveted to the cowl. That will also shed some light on this cars pedigree.
FYI, I was talking to Dwayne this morning about the car and how he had mentioned some documentation was online. I told him I couldn't find it and we had to do a little digging since he couldn't quite remember how he got to it either.
Here is a direct link to it. On this page, click on "view documentation on this historical vehicle" and it will bring up a PDF file with correspondence with the navy and superior:
http://news.barrett-jackson.com/40th-annual-barrett-jackson-scottsdale-auction-to-sell-historic-ambulance-that-transported-jfk/
It doesn't do much more than associate the various numbers together, but I thought people would like to see it rather than just hear rumors about it.
Here is a direct link to it. On this page, click on "view documentation on this historical vehicle" and it will bring up a PDF file with correspondence with the navy and superior:
http://news.barrett-jackson.com/40th-annual-barrett-jackson-scottsdale-auction-to-sell-historic-ambulance-that-transported-jfk/
It doesn't do much more than associate the various numbers together, but I thought people would like to see it rather than just hear rumors about it.
Interesting reading, HOWEVER now we have to factor in Dan's post regarding the car being "destroyed" per his congressman's letter.
It's rapidly approaching the point where if BJ has ANY sense at all they just run, (not walk) away from this one!!!!
Too many questions, not nearly enough good, solid answers. Seems like every answer brings up more questions. Like I stated previously, I don't care a whit on way or t'other, I don't have a horse in this race.
Where the hell is Sherlock Holmes when we need him?????
It's rapidly approaching the point where if BJ has ANY sense at all they just run, (not walk) away from this one!!!!
Too many questions, not nearly enough good, solid answers. Seems like every answer brings up more questions. Like I stated previously, I don't care a whit on way or t'other, I don't have a horse in this race.
Where the hell is Sherlock Holmes when we need him?????
Seems odd that someone would be requesting that information 20 days after the assassination?
Mike McDonald
PCS Member
Red Spotlight and Fender Mounted Siren
The Bobb Kossoff version that toured Southern California 10 years ago and ended up with Central California Classics.... had the RF Fender Mounted Siren and Red Seal Beam in the LS Spotlight for nothing else other than to have a CA Steady Red for the LA Burn Runs and other events it participated in at the time. It's too bad one of us can't inspect the RF Fender of the B-J One.... as that would probably be the simpliest way of telling if it's the (CA Known Clone) or not? MM
The Bobb Kossoff version that toured Southern California 10 years ago and ended up with Central California Classics.... had the RF Fender Mounted Siren and Red Seal Beam in the LS Spotlight for nothing else other than to have a CA Steady Red for the LA Burn Runs and other events it participated in at the time. It's too bad one of us can't inspect the RF Fender of the B-J One.... as that would probably be the simpliest way of telling if it's the (CA Known Clone) or not? MM
I believe that it is time to start saving the documents and pictures. If you are a Site Supporter, then please post your pictures of the alledged JFK ambulance to this thread if it hasn't been posted yet. That way, at the end of the discussion, we will still retain all pertenant information. If you are not a site supporter, and have pictures, please PM me for an address where to send them, and I will put them into the thread in your posts... thanks Paul
PS.. Here is the PDF Documentation provided by Barrett Jackson auctions...
PS.. Here is the PDF Documentation provided by Barrett Jackson auctions...
To anyone familiar with Bobb Kosoff or his version of the car, why exactly was it determined a clone, and who made the determination?
Bill Marcy
PCS Member
I believe this ambulance will not run across the block at B-J, as much as I would love to watch it.
Dan Brintlinger
PCS Member
trivia: Navy regulation
As Air Force One flew back to Washington that day, Mrs. Kennedy said it would be nice if a Navy ambulance could take the casket to Bethesda Hospital, and the request was radioed ahead. Then, someone, somewhere, in the Navy hierarchy stated that it was "against regulations" to use an ambulance as a hearse. They were soon told they had better FORGET THE REGULATION and have the ambulance waiting for the plane! Trivia for today.
As Air Force One flew back to Washington that day, Mrs. Kennedy said it would be nice if a Navy ambulance could take the casket to Bethesda Hospital, and the request was radioed ahead. Then, someone, somewhere, in the Navy hierarchy stated that it was "against regulations" to use an ambulance as a hearse. They were soon told they had better FORGET THE REGULATION and have the ambulance waiting for the plane! Trivia for today.
Mike McDonald
PCS Member
Clone
Todd: "CLONE" maybe too harsh as it is obviously one of the Pontiac Ambulances made for the Navy. It first surfaced at a Alisa Ann Roesch (possibly not spelled correctly) Burn Run in LA with TONS of pictures and documentation that it was "THE" one that transported JFK's body that fateful day. The documentation alone was enough for me and (many-many) others at the event to be true believers. In subsequent months of SC-PCS Events, and being around Bobb Kosoff during questioning (by others) it became less likely that it was "THE" Ambulance. At the time, this car and pictures were posted on the old PCS Website and the documention that Dan Britlinger (I believe) had that "THE" one was destroyed. Honestly to my recollection today.....back then it was just left at that.....no forensic proof one way or another and until the recent B-J Advertising. I hope it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is "THE" one and whoever is selling it makes a lot of money..... I don't think the "HYPE and "PR" of all this is hurting the hobby of collecting and preserving professional cars. MM
Todd: "CLONE" maybe too harsh as it is obviously one of the Pontiac Ambulances made for the Navy. It first surfaced at a Alisa Ann Roesch (possibly not spelled correctly) Burn Run in LA with TONS of pictures and documentation that it was "THE" one that transported JFK's body that fateful day. The documentation alone was enough for me and (many-many) others at the event to be true believers. In subsequent months of SC-PCS Events, and being around Bobb Kosoff during questioning (by others) it became less likely that it was "THE" Ambulance. At the time, this car and pictures were posted on the old PCS Website and the documention that Dan Britlinger (I believe) had that "THE" one was destroyed. Honestly to my recollection today.....back then it was just left at that.....no forensic proof one way or another and until the recent B-J Advertising. I hope it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is "THE" one and whoever is selling it makes a lot of money..... I don't think the "HYPE and "PR" of all this is hurting the hobby of collecting and preserving professional cars. MM
I find it funny that just a bit ago they auctioned off Oswalds casket and now out of the blue the JFK Ambulance pops up for the Barret Jackson auction.
Is it just me or is this too much coincidence?
Is it just me or is this too much coincidence?
Kevin O'Connell - Deceased - 1954 - 2019
February 10, 1954 - May 12, 2019
It's Actually Alisa Ann Ruch
When we first began discussions about forming a Southern California Chapter Kosoff said,"We can make some money off these guys!". He's basically a profiteer posing as a hobbyist. He acquired his car for a song without realizing it was the same type of car that had transported the late President's remains. I'm not sure who or what put the bug in his head but he called me a few months later to ask if I had any pictures of the JFK car (I did, but the ex kept them when we divorced. She was a big JFK fan.). Shortly after that he began touting his car as THE car. Knowing him as we do, all of us locals just dismissed the claim as more of Kosoff's shenanigans, business as usual for the man. After all, Bethesda is a long way from Antelope Valley, CA.
When we first began discussions about forming a Southern California Chapter Kosoff said,"We can make some money off these guys!". He's basically a profiteer posing as a hobbyist. He acquired his car for a song without realizing it was the same type of car that had transported the late President's remains. I'm not sure who or what put the bug in his head but he called me a few months later to ask if I had any pictures of the JFK car (I did, but the ex kept them when we divorced. She was a big JFK fan.). Shortly after that he began touting his car as THE car. Knowing him as we do, all of us locals just dismissed the claim as more of Kosoff's shenanigans, business as usual for the man. After all, Bethesda is a long way from Antelope Valley, CA.
Kent Dorsey
PCS Member / Funeral Director
In reviewing the monogramming on the stretcher sheet, I think I have been able to make out "omicat Papal dwieven", which is latin for:
May the farce be with you...
May the farce be with you...