JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction

Richard Vyse said:
According to another post the JFK ambulance was sold to Tammy Allen a car collector in Grand Junction, CO. With it in her hands and being an extremely close friend to the Barrett-Jackson bunch, any futher verification to see if this is the real deal have just eroded away. I'm confident this was done to protect the precious name of Craig Jackson after he took the stage and made the comments he made.

I just lost all my respect for Barrett-Jackson.
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Whole thing makes you go Hummmmm! doesn't it.
 
Bruce Osborne said:
Whole thing makes you go Hummmmm! doesn't it.
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The original buyer's relationship to Craig Jackson made me take notice and wonder if that wasn't "a friend in need" purchase since it was pretty clear Addison Brown couldn't clearly articulate her rationale for buying the car, as it was not in line with other vehicles her husband had bought at B-J. Now, they are big time donors to a bunch of charities, so the comment about donating to the Smithsonian (and underlying tax write-off) may have been genuine: gotta do something with it...

However, Tammy Allen... she's been a big-time buyer at B-J, but the '63 Pontiac Superior is a closer fit to her eclectic 'collecting' habits, i.e., she has a PT Cruzer with a hot tub in it, a Mini Cooper stretch limo, a Messerschmidt micro car, muscle cars (Mustangs, Vipers, etc), classics, you name it... about 120 in all. She also has a public museum in Grand Junction, Colorado, and a clear desire to draw visitors in vs. the private collections owned by Walter Brown Jr., Robert Platte, Craig Jackson, etc. I also didn't get the impression that she's part of Craig Jackson's inner-circle based on a couple tweets from the B-J auction. Definitely on the B-J A-list for pre-auction parties and VIP treatment for high-roller clients, but not a neighbor like the Browns.

Just my .02 again.
 
To me, the fishiest things by far about the ambulance that crossed B-J's block are the Admiral (or ex-Admiral) Hogan letter and the Superior response, as they're the only two things that actually link all the VINs and data plates to the ambulance assigned to Bethesda Naval Hospital.

As only fifteen steel-roofed Pontiac high-top military ambulances were built at Superior's Koscuisko, Mississippi plant in the 1963 model year, perhaps it would not be long term impossibility for the PCS to track down a more complete production or military procurement record listing of where all 15 cars ultimately ended up. By adopting this "soft underbelly" strategy, I have a suspicion it could be proved the B-J unit (teaming Pontiac chassis # B63P198767 and Superior body #404) actually served at a far less historically significant post than Bethesda Naval Hospital on the night of November 22nd, 1963; that the car crushed in 1986 on the Kennedy Library's orders was the "real deal" but had different Pontiac VIN and Superior body numbers; and that the B-J car is indeed the Kosoff car, and it was originally stationed at a base out west where its origin story is simply more plausible.
 
I forgot I have a copy of that one in the basement. thanks for the link to the auction I did not watch it. part of what runs me off is the announcers rambling about things they know nothing about. sounds to much like me.

but it does bring up the thought as to how much they pay to have the car detail. a nice job. now if we could get that crew do give a demonstration at the international meet that would be something.
 
that the first time I have seen the superior tag on the right fender. my pictures of the Central Vally car you can't see it. are yours any clearer
 
Richard Vyse said:
But it does say an ambulance transported his body in Dallas not a hearse.
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Rchard and all, please remember that the terms "ambulance" and "hearse" were not well defined and often interchangible back in the day, outside of the auto industry/hobby. Of course, the presence of a "combination" that was an ambulance now, and a hearse later, made this even more muddy to the general public or news reporter. Indeed, someone said that they still refer to the coach that transports a casket as an "ambulance" in their home region.

Mike Ward said:
Hi Steve:

Apologies if posting your FaceBook picture was distressing.

I have removed the picture from the post.
...

Please let me know if you will be at EMS Today conference. It would be nice to spend a little face-to-face time. I will spring for drinks/lunch.

Or you can stop by the Firegeezer/STATter911 booth at Firehouse Expo, our fourth year exhibiting. Mike
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Apology accepted, thanks. I will be at EMS Today at the EMS Museum Foundation booth with my....Pontiac ambulance! And been friends with Dave Statter for years, so I'll be by there eventually, too, at FHE. We'll meet up - you know what I look like! ;)
 
Steve Lichtman said:
Rchard and all, please remember that the terms "ambulance" and "hearse" were not well defined and often interchangible back in the day, outside of the auto industry/hobby. Of course, the presence of a "combination" that was an ambulance now, and a hearse later, made this even more muddy to the general public or news reporter. Indeed, someone said that they still refer to the coach that transports a casket as an "ambulance" in their home region.
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We still have folks around here that refer to the hearse as an ambulance to this day.
 
Jeremy D. Ledford said:
We still have folks around here that refer to the hearse as an ambulance to this day.
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I have never called a "Hearst" a ambulance in my life. but all this just goes to show how much credit you can pay to new announcers or the written word by them. the Dr never stated he got the car from a yard in Kansas the announcers that day did. throwing a cloud over things again. was it a slip of the tongue from people that knew the truth of just blather from some one filling air time.
 
From the B-J press conference - a revealing moment?

I am particularly interested in the provenance of the fake Hogan-Shields letters, so this part of the Barrett-Jackson press conference got my attention:

Steve Davis said: "Now we've got the [Hogan] request, we've got the [Superior] response. Where they came from [points to Jensen, gestures and shrugs] - who knows? The government sent them - or whatever the resource was - to (?) Dr. Jensen received them...."

(Watch this at 10:26 in [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdjfHjppyw[/ame].)

Perhaps the video shows Steve Davis realizing that the press might want to know exactly where "the government" had found these documents, and that he should have the answer - but did not.
 
Paul Hoch said:
I am particularly interested in the provenance of the fake Hogan-Shields letters, so this part of the Barrett-Jackson press conference got my attention:

Steve Davis said: "Now we've got the [Hogan] request, we've got the [Superior] response. Where they came from [points to Jensen, gestures and shrugs] - who knows? The government sent them - or whatever the resource was - to (?) Dr. Jensen received them...."

(Watch this at 10:26 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdjfHjppyw.)

Perhaps the video shows Steve Davis realizing that the press might want to know exactly where "the government" had found these documents, and that he should have the answer - but did not.
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I think Steve Davis did great clearing B-J but when Craig Jackson got up there and said it was the real deal, oh boy! I swear I heard several lawyers licking their lips. It was fun and the PCS came out front and center and did us proud.
 
New followup article by Justin Hyde in Jalopnik

http://jalopnik.com/5742459/the-jfk-ambulance-sells-again
Bill Allen is unable to enjoy the museum currently due to his lodging in a federal prison in California, serving his sentence for charges stemming from a political bribery scandal in Alaska that involved several state legislators and eventually led to a federal case against the late U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens.
And now here Tammy is immediately snatching up a car "shrouded in mystery" from a bidder, friendly with Craig Jackson, who claimed she'd wanted to keep the vehicle and even donate it to the Smithsonian — and all for just a touch over what the initial bidder paid for it. Sound suspicious to you?
All we know is somehow, sadly, we doubt this will be the last we hear of this particular Pontiac Bonneville ambulance.
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Also at
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmem...l-allens-daughter-buys-fake-jfk-ambulance.php
with the headline "Convicted Alaska Briber Bill Allen's Daughter Buys Fake JFK Ambulance."

Some of the comments at both sites are not Politically Correct.
 
if you move father into the video press conference you will hear Doc J fielding questions for the press. when asked about the previous Owens name He states it's not pertinent, then right after that were he got the papers . the answer is, in the mail.
 
Check out this post in the Jalopnak thread comment section !

Way to go PCS !




Looking at her Facebook wall, there seems to be some question whether she took it or not. She posted yesterday that she elected to pass because there was so much sadness associated with the car.

If Ms. Allen did did end up with the car, here would be my suggestion to her: put the car in a secure place and invite the members of the Professional Car Society to come and give it a good look over. I have read every post on their forum regarding this and I think they are a true bunch of great guys who love their cars and hobby. Their collective knowledge is remarkable and it was fun and facsinating to sit in my "basement" and watch them unravel this. Just a group of guys kibitzing, jogging memories and doing some leg work. Reading the thread is like a lesson in how most "mysteries" are really solved. I'd continue to pursue information from the FOIA to see what I might be able to come up with.

I won't go into my opinion because it's just that, my opinion. If the car is proven to be a clone, I would offer it to a military museum because, as a car guy, I can't stand to see a nice car crushed. I personally don't like the looks of this car because it gives me the creeps and has since 1963. Even if it were never associated with any tragic event I have always found it creepy. If it could somehow be associated with November 22, 1963, I'd call the Kennedy Library and offer the car to them and THEY could be the ones to decide it's fate.
 
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