JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction

I found something interesting today. As I was looking through files on my computer, I found some photos of other '63 Superior Pontiac Navy ambulances that had been for sale some time back. These cars never claimed to have any connection to anything, just more '63 Navy ambulances that went on to civilian service.

The photos included in the sale showed photos of the dash plates. And guess what? They look NOTHING like the plate on the Scottsdale ambulance. Interesting that both ambulances have plates that are silver (aluminum?) with black printing, and have the Superior name pre-printed on them. The plate from the Scottsdale ambulance is brass and Superior is stamped.

Is it possible that they had different style plates? Certainly. But two of one style and one of another makes me curious....

First two are from the rough ambulance advertised through Central Valley Classics, the third is from an ambulance that later served Grant County, Utah:
 

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Steve Lichtman said:
The photos included in the sale showed photos of the dash plates. And guess what? They look NOTHING like the plate on the Scottsdale ambulance. Interesting that both ambulances have plates that are silver (aluminum?) with black printing, and have the Superior name pre-printed on them. The plate from the Scottsdale ambulance is brass and Superior is stamped.

Is it possible that they had different style plates? Certainly. But two of one style and one of another makes me curious..:
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Things that make ya go huuuuummmmm!!!!!!:agree:
 
Just out of curiosity, can anyone tell if the VIN tag on the '63 ambulance in Steve's post attached with screws or rivets?
 
Fake Data Plates

Last night my girlfriend told me that she talked to her dad (a long time PCS member and followed the B-J auction as well) and he told her that on Sunday he was at a military show in Phenox, AZ and there was a guy selling data plates. When talking with him the seller stated that he would put anything on it he wanted. Andy then asked him if I wanted all my truck numbers on it you would do it? The seller said yes.
Sounds like the data plate can be faked easier than we all thought.
 
John Royark JR said:
Last night my girlfriend told me that she talked to her dad (a long time PCS member and followed the B-J auction as well) and he told her that on Sunday he was at a military show in Phenox, AZ and there was a guy selling data plates. When talking with him the seller stated that he would put anything on it he wanted. Andy then asked him if I wanted all my truck numbers on it you would do it? The seller said yes.
Sounds like the data plate can be faked easier than we all thought.
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Interesting (not too surprising). Do you know the man's/company's name? I don't suspect they are doing anything illegal, though it certainly may lead to things like this.

We do know the previous owner displayed the ambulance at a military vehicle show last summer.
 
Further reinforces what several of us have been thinking. This was the Kosoff car cleaned up with a knock-off data plate and a "supporting" letter. Superior didn't make enough of these to be using different data plates. I bet Superior had to order more data plates than they ever made ambulances for. As we can see, Superior supplied the data plate with the car, so it already had the Superior name on it. Why would they stamp that non-changing info. As Steve Barrett was kind enough to demonstrate the plate is easily removed! As others have already stated I am in no position to point fingers of who did what. The red spotlight with knob, low band antenna mount, U.S. Navy, and the seat dings and crease along with the "drive out to California" story in one of the interviews tie the B-J car with Kosoff.
 
In my 18 years in the fire service we have had quite a few military surplus vehicles, and I have never seen a brass vehicle information plate.
 
Brendan Martin said:
In my 18 years in the fire service we have had quite a few military surplus vehicles, and I have never seen a brass vehicle information plate.
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The government did use brass on some vehicles. This one has the black paint removed however.
 

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Jerry Jacobson said:
The government did use brass on some vehicles. This one has the black paint removed however.
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The dataplate you posted shows it stamped for a WWII era vehicle produced by GM. My guess is the style and materials used for data plates had changed by 1963. That should also hold true (brass vs. aluminum) for non swimming vehicles that would not be exposed to salt water.
 
Wow! The seller certainly went to alot of effort to fabricate evidence. One would think he had help. There are no doubt more people who know the truth behind that fake car.
 
Wanna buy your own "reproduction" data plate? Here's one! Buy your own now, fresh from Poland!

Wouldn't take a lot of work to fabricate this, just this plate and some punches. Easy work, really, if you're expecting a return on your investment of a million bucks.
 
i will toss this out. the white CV ambulance was reported to be a army one. Doc j has a army one in his back yard he got with the gray one. I don't know the color of it. it was the big test of how the GM door jam number was put on. they went over that at the news briefing. that could be the difference here in the type of tag. but the seller selling the blank navy tag that look just like it, showed how easy it would to get one and make one. I think I'll order a few so i can have one to.
 
Steve Lichtman said:
Interesting (not too surprising). Do you know the man's/company's name? I don't suspect they are doing anything illegal, though it certainly may lead to things like this.

We do know the previous owner displayed the ambulance at a military vehicle show last summer.
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As of now I do not know the mans/company name, but I will try to find out.
After posting, it seems others have done some surfing and found a few sources.
 
Steve Lichtman said:
Is it possible that they had different style plates? Certainly. But two of one style and one of another makes me curious....
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Yes, the US Army and US Navy would have used different-looking nomenclature plates back "in the day" when they were procuring under similar, but not identical acquisition regulations and specifications.

The 2nd ambulance at Central Valley was a US Army ambulance, hence the different-looking nomenclature plate. However, I would note that I can't think of a good reason for the nomenclature plate in the Scottsdale Pontiac Superior to have been so bent-up the way it was... it 'should' have been perfectly flat like the plate on the US Army '63 Pontiac Superior if it had always been installed on the vehicle.

Regardless, and as mentioned several pages back, until such time as someone can put their eyes on a photo of or the actual the US Navy nomenclature plate from the '63 Pontiac Superior that was destroyed by the Kennedy Library back in 1986, the entire issue is at an impasse. After all, what's essential here is verifing the destruction of the genuine article. Once that is confirmed by something "more definitive" than the SNS / FSN listed on the Kennedy Library destruction certificate, case closed.

All of this other "stuff" (to quote Craig Jackson) is interesting, but not conclusive UNLESS somone can prove:
1. the type of data plate used on the Scottsdale Pontiac Superior is incorrect, or
2. that the plate on that vehicle has been altered and/or,
3. that the two (2) documents purportedly acquired via FOIA are fraudulent.
 
Are there any good photos of the drivers side door on the real JFK car? If you compare the passenger side door line of the crushed car to the passenger side on the BJ car they do not match. Unfortunately all I have found are drivers side shots on the old JFK footage of the real car.

This may have been mentioned here already though.

Interesting to me, not only as a car buff, but a history buff.
 
Jacob Meganck said:
Are there any good photos of the drivers side door on the real JFK car? If you compare the passenger side door line of the crushed car to the passenger side on the BJ car they do not match. Unfortunately all I have found are drivers side shots on the old JFK footage of the real car.

This may have been mentioned here already though.

Interesting to me, not only as a car buff, but a history buff.
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They all look the same to me. Safe to say all started out in military service:

jfkambsides.jpg
 
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