It made this mornings news on Jalopnik. read all about it...
Kennedy hearse at Barrett-Jackson 2012
- Thread starter Tony Blair
- Start date
Again, that just seems gross to me, not historic. But then, I met a man who is a Lincoln fan, who carries in a frame a lock of Abraham Lincoln's hair, so that seems worse yet. (Whether it is actually Lincoln's hair or not, we'll never know, but the fact that he wants to carry a lock of Lincoln's hair around with him is very odd.)
I sent them an e-mail as well, along with the group of JFK assassination history folks that were involved in the original discussion about the ambulance. All are aware and watching, though this one is somewhat less controversial.
Nah, I guess they are gluttons for publicity and money. They view any publicity as good publicity, and our contesting of their claims last year helped fuel their fire and boost their publicity. Why pass? This stuff is hot! Nice guys finish last.
I didn't think he worked for O'Neal, so there's another B-J "fact" down the drain. And I do remember Ardeen talking with us that night at the Denver meet (though I'm pretty sure I didn't stay till 3am).
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OK, folks, here we go again.
Yesterday, I received an e-mail from Gary Mack, curator of the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas. Gary was one of the Kennedy researchers who provided vital information during the “JFK Ambulance” fiasco last January. Gary received a call and some information from a gentleman in Oklahoma who owns a hearse, which he believes is the hearse which carried President Kennedy’s body. So I called the fellow.
His hearse is a ’63 Miller-Meteor Cadillac limousine combination, and he has documentation that it was originally owned by O’Neal Funeral Home in Dallas. He also has copies of a newspaper article, written in 1974, which indicates a previous owner of this hearse felt it was the one that carried JFK, though a quote from Vernon O’Neal cited in the article indicates that O’Neal did not believe this was the same car.
The man in Oklahoma also attached photos of his hearse as it appears currently, and a copy of the original title.
My opinion is that the hearse shown in the news photos from the assassination is certainly a ’64, and this one is a ’63. Also, the original title for this hearse indicates a license number of PU611, and while it’s not quite clear what the license number is on the hearse shown at Love Field, it might be MC629 – in any case, definitely not PU611.
At least, this one, we have a proper data plate!
So, what do you think?
Yesterday, I received an e-mail from Gary Mack, curator of the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas. Gary was one of the Kennedy researchers who provided vital information during the “JFK Ambulance” fiasco last January. Gary received a call and some information from a gentleman in Oklahoma who owns a hearse, which he believes is the hearse which carried President Kennedy’s body. So I called the fellow.
His hearse is a ’63 Miller-Meteor Cadillac limousine combination, and he has documentation that it was originally owned by O’Neal Funeral Home in Dallas. He also has copies of a newspaper article, written in 1974, which indicates a previous owner of this hearse felt it was the one that carried JFK, though a quote from Vernon O’Neal cited in the article indicates that O’Neal did not believe this was the same car.
The man in Oklahoma also attached photos of his hearse as it appears currently, and a copy of the original title.
My opinion is that the hearse shown in the news photos from the assassination is certainly a ’64, and this one is a ’63. Also, the original title for this hearse indicates a license number of PU611, and while it’s not quite clear what the license number is on the hearse shown at Love Field, it might be MC629 – in any case, definitely not PU611.
At least, this one, we have a proper data plate!
So, what do you think?
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I think that's not an opinion, that's a fact. Most of the original photos of the car show the front end, which like the back, is clearly a 1964 Cadillac. So this person in Oklahoma bought one of the O’Neal coaches, just not the right one...
the truth is either one could have been used along with any of the others he had. it was just dumb luck and probably because it was his newest one that he used it that day to deliver the requested coffin. no doubt it was the 64 that he got tossed out of when the SS commandeered the car and abandoned it on the tarmac of love field that day . just dumb luck not planed for or set up. to me it's still no different then a folding chair he sat on waiting to give a speech. just something that was there that fit the need and got hijacked for it. the real story is so much more interesting then the hype. to bad BJ only wants the hype.
me when I see the car all i can think of is I'm worried about the fit on the doors of Brendon's. man that miller is bad
me when I see the car all i can think of is I'm worried about the fit on the doors of Brendon's. man that miller is bad
A couple of updates to my post:
I spoke with the current owner of the '63 M-M, and we confirmed that what he has really is not the JFK hearse, though it was owned by Oneal at the time. It will henceforth be known as "The-hearse-that-was-parked-next-to-the-hearse-that-carried-JFK"! At least he has a definate answer, he wasn't sure. He indicates that he'd be willing to sell it if someone was interested. I have his phone number.
In my correspondence about this, I also received one correction. According to Gary Mack, our Dallas guy, the correct spelling of the funeral home name is:
Oneal
There is no apostrophe and the "n" is not capitalized. It was a well-known name in Dallas for many years (though the firm is long gone now). So we can use the correctly spelled name from now on.
One other "pet peeve" of mine - Ed used the abbreviation "SS" above, and it was used in the Presidential limo thread as well. The "SS" has a very negative, WWII association. The organization which protects the President and other dignitaries is the United States Secret Service, abbreviated USSS. Big difference. I'd be remiss if I didn't say something out of respect for my friends from USSS, one of whom participates in this group!
I spoke with the current owner of the '63 M-M, and we confirmed that what he has really is not the JFK hearse, though it was owned by Oneal at the time. It will henceforth be known as "The-hearse-that-was-parked-next-to-the-hearse-that-carried-JFK"! At least he has a definate answer, he wasn't sure. He indicates that he'd be willing to sell it if someone was interested. I have his phone number.
In my correspondence about this, I also received one correction. According to Gary Mack, our Dallas guy, the correct spelling of the funeral home name is:
Oneal
There is no apostrophe and the "n" is not capitalized. It was a well-known name in Dallas for many years (though the firm is long gone now). So we can use the correctly spelled name from now on.
One other "pet peeve" of mine - Ed used the abbreviation "SS" above, and it was used in the Presidential limo thread as well. The "SS" has a very negative, WWII association. The organization which protects the President and other dignitaries is the United States Secret Service, abbreviated USSS. Big difference. I'd be remiss if I didn't say something out of respect for my friends from USSS, one of whom participates in this group!
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Well I think we got the right Cadillac this time around. The ambulance snafu was just a joke and I was turned off watching that unfold on tv.
What this Cadillac is really going to go for is going to be interesting to say the least. I will be tuned into the auction like many others here. I say it doesn't hit the million mark or even come close.
What this Cadillac is really going to go for is going to be interesting to say the least. I will be tuned into the auction like many others here. I say it doesn't hit the million mark or even come close.
The old Oneal firm, at 2000 N. St. Paul, was out of business by 1950.
The spelling of the O'Neal firm in question, the one involved in the JFK incident and owned by Vernon B. "Peg" O'Neal, definitely has an apostrophe and a capital N. This is confirmed in official and unofficial documents as well as in interviews with former O.F.H. employees Hal Priddy and Aubrey Rike.
The firm that owned the car after O'Neal's was the Thomae F.H. (now Thomae-Garza) in San Bonita, TX.
Why would the registration be signed Oneal by the owner, not O'Neal? I would look to the official historical document for accuracy. (granted that this is for a 1963 vehicle). It would be interesting to get a copy of the title application for the 1964 MM Cadillac that is up for auction.)
Having found this, I then went searching for other historical evidence, and found this transcript from 1964 that has it spelled O'Neal...
Along the way, I found this Old Cars Weekly article with pictures.
The OLD CARS WEEKLY article is very interesting, especially since Dennis "Peanuts" McGuire was Aubrey "Al" Rike's partner in Car 606 that day, not Don McElroy. There is no mention in Rike's book about Car 605 - the twin '62 Ford wagon and the car that picked up Lee Harvey Oswald after he was shot - also being at the Parkland ER at the time of the JFK incident.
"O'Neal," "Oneal," or "O'Niel;" while spelled differently in many places, it's O'Neal in the testimonies and stories I've read that were told by the people that worked there - Hal Priddy, Al Rike, and others. Was it really Oneal? Was the '63 title signed Oneal because that was correct, or just to match a typist's misspelling? Believe me, I for one would like to know.
I tried to get a link to Rike's book through the PCS website's Amazon link and post it here, but apparently we don't have full Amazon access (nor could I access my personal Amazon "cart"). This book is great reading for anyone with an interest in the JFK assassination and related events. Here's a direct link:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Aubrey-Assassination-President-Kennedy/dp/0977465756/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324764613&sr=1-1[/ame]
Paul, if you can change this link to direct access through the PCS link, please have at it.
"O'Neal," "Oneal," or "O'Niel;" while spelled differently in many places, it's O'Neal in the testimonies and stories I've read that were told by the people that worked there - Hal Priddy, Al Rike, and others. Was it really Oneal? Was the '63 title signed Oneal because that was correct, or just to match a typist's misspelling? Believe me, I for one would like to know.
I tried to get a link to Rike's book through the PCS website's Amazon link and post it here, but apparently we don't have full Amazon access (nor could I access my personal Amazon "cart"). This book is great reading for anyone with an interest in the JFK assassination and related events. Here's a direct link:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Aubrey-Assassination-President-Kennedy/dp/0977465756/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324764613&sr=1-1[/ame]
Paul, if you can change this link to direct access through the PCS link, please have at it.
This latest information will help put to rest the spelling issue. Below is a video of the Oneal ambulance removing Lee Harvey Oswald from the cellar of the Dallas Police Department building. You can clearly see the spelling on the vehicle at 6:55 , 7:10, & 7:42 ..
video deleted .. see next post
video deleted .. see next post
I think this is the video you meant to link, based on the footage times:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIvfVRxntQ[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIvfVRxntQ[/ame]
ONEAL Ambulance model
Check the Model & Miniature Forum for Chris Mooney's post of 11-19-2011. He did some research on getting the ONEAL decal correct for this model.
Check the Model & Miniature Forum for Chris Mooney's post of 11-19-2011. He did some research on getting the ONEAL decal correct for this model.
John Royark JR
PCS Member
Thanks for posting this video. I have never seen an in depth video of Oswald and the Oneal (however it is written) ambulance before, just short clips of when he was shot.
I had a brief exchange of e-mails with the folks at the JFK Library in Boston today about the hearse. They are watching and helping any way they can as well. They sent me a large, clear scan of the photo from Love Field. One thing that came out of it is a clear view of the license plate on the hearse.
So here it is, if you wanted to know what the tag number was: WC-609.
So here it is, if you wanted to know what the tag number was: WC-609.
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That grill looks pretty ragged for a brand new hearse...
just a granny long range shot in black and white. farther blown up from a image sent over the Internet at who know how many DPI. the fact that it even exist still to me is a miracle in itself. those of us that were glued to our black and white round tub cabinet TVs were marveling at watching it live, not taped and replayed. if I'm not mistaken this moment was the first extensive use of live news coverage. we got to see Ruby shoot Oswald as it happened that day. then over and over again as it was replayed. the phrase with the body of and Mrs Kennedy were attach to a lot more then just this car.