Kennedy hearse at Barrett-Jackson 2012

I lost respect for B-J after the way they handled the Pontiac earlier this year. I have not watched any of their auctions since, but I will watch this one. It wouldn't ordinarily bother me, but they keep thumping their chests and talking about doing their homework. In the end, it seems they ignored lots of information and sold it anyway.

That is why I prefer Dana Mecum, he just does his thing.
 
What's the metal plunger on the driver's side of the divider for?

used-1964-cadillac-hearse-thejfkhearse-5383-6436303-37-640.jpg
 
Sounds like Steve should send B-J the three points he wrote out in his post !

B-J's thoughts will be..... Not another Steve from the PCS proving our statements are wrong again !!! LMAO !

Give it to 'em Steve !!!

Maybe the PCS should be B-J's writers or reps when they are selling something they know nothing about !

At least there isn't any issues with the car being THE car this time.


Like many of you, I too lost all respect for the B-J boys.


Maybe it will end up in the same collection of the lady who bought the FAKE ambulance.



Here is a view that most will likely dis-agree with, but it's how I see it:
It is a 25,000.00 car in my opinion. A famous person being in it without a pulse isn't worthy of it being worth 1m or 1.5m in my view. It would be different if JFk actually owned the car with the title in his name. Then I could see if being worth a little more.

And for the person who would have paid 450,000 for a rocking chair he owned... I think they are off their rocker !


Some people with a lot of money do not always have a lot of common sense,
Darren
 
Darren Bedford said:
Sounds like Steve should send B-J the three points he wrote out in his post !

B-J's thoughts will be..... Not another Steve from the PCS proving our statements are wrong again !!! LMAO !

Give it to 'em Steve !!!

Maybe the PCS should be B-J's writers or reps when they are selling something they know nothing about !

At least there isn't any issues with the car being THE car this time.


Like many of you, I too lost all respect for the B-J

Maybe it will end up in the same collection of the lady who bought the FAKE ambulance.



Here is a view that most will likely dis-agree with, but it's how I see it:
It is a 25,000.00 car in my opinion. A famous person being in it without a pulse isn't worthy of it being worth 1m or 1.5m in my view. It would be different if JFk actually owned the car with the title in his name. Then I could see if being worth a little more.

And for the person who would have paid 450,000 for a rocking chair he owned... I think they are off their rocker !


Some people with a lot of money do not always have a lot of common sense,
Darren
Click to expand...

I think your estimate of $25,000 for a beautiful, almost fifty year old coach is a bit light, don't you?
 
All I can think is, "Oh boy. Here we go again."

At least, in spite of the fantastic claims, we do know that this is the correct car this time.
 
Darren Bedford said:
And for the person who would have paid 450,000 for a rocking chair he owned... I think they are off their rocker !

Some people with a lot of money do not always have a lot of common sense,
Darren
Click to expand...

Many people still consider the Kennedys to be as close as we'll get to American Royalty. If you're bored sometime, do a google search on things that have been auctioned that the Kennedys, specifically President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, owned. It will blow your mind.

Examples:

Two rocking chairs used by President Kennedy: Both went for around $450K, one slightly more, one slightly less.

Set of golf clubs (woods) owned by President Kennedy, valued at $700-$900: Sold for almost $775,000

Engagement ring given to Jackie by Aristotle Onassis, valued at $500K: Sold for $2.5 Million.
 
A couple interesting coincidences

Steve mentioned Wetumka Oklahoma. I had actually stayed in Wetumka, many years ago. It's a very teeny town, and I believe the current funeral director in that town is a PCS Member.

One of my best college friends now lives in Texas, and phoned me a couple years ago to tell me that, while stopping to buy gasoline in a very small town (I forget which one) he was intrigued by an old truck parked in the driveway of the local funeral home. A lady came out to talk with John about the truck, and John later noticed a garage door open with the front end of an old Cadillac visible. Knowing my interest in hearses, John inquired about the car in the garage, and the lady confirmed that it was this same '64 that carried JFK. Of course John phoned me immediately, and I was pretty envious! Pic below is John and me, taken at his son's wedding two years ago. Tom
 

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rear passenger window

On the tarmac photo....rear passenger window is halfway down WITH the drapes closed. Why? Did it possibly not have rear airconditioning or maybe to vent the back? Curious.
 
A close examination of the photos...

While this may very well be the actual 1964 Miller-Meteor Cadillac that carried President Kennedy that fateful day in Dallas, the "restoration" of the car is absolutely dissapointing:

- The attempt to "re-create" Miller-Meteor's formal, swag-style drapes fell seriously short as the valances have too much material and the vertical sections don't have enough.

- I find it interesting that, for a car with a two-tone interior, the jump seats are a solid color. The two-tone effect was typically followed completely through on all seats, partition, and rear ledgeboard and door panels.

- Looks like the rear floor linoleum was replaced. Too bad they forgot the bier pin holder, which should be just to the right inside the rear doorway.

- Look carefully at the stiching pattern in the upholstry. The JFK car shows all-vertical (straight line) stitching. An original and correct 1964 Miller-Meteor has a more complex pattern, beginning with "squares" at the top, "diamonds" at the bottom, and "diamonds" in the center sections of the front seat. The accompanying photos of the 1964 Miller-Meteor brochure and a 1964 Miller-Meteor Classic 42 ambulance with original interior, illustrate this.

- It's odd that the JFK car, as shown, does not have an overhead (linen) compartment to the rear. I find it surprising that such a common feature would be absent on a combination coach built for display at an NFDA convention. On the other hand, I don't know why anyone would eliminate this compartment if it were originally there.

- Since this is an air-conditioned car and the A/C unit would have been mounted behind the driver's seat, I suspect the "plunger" we see on the partition has something to do with the A/C / heating / ventillation system.

As Steve Loftin pointed out, B-J apparently didn't care to accurately verify this car's history before making statements. Having already crossed paths with The Professional Car Society, I would think B-J might want to contact the PCS Miller-Meteor Chapter to authenticate the "restoration" of this coach. Yes, it "looks nice", but it is not original, nor is it correct.

This causes a person to wonder just how much of that coach is still original to that day in 1963? What pieces were actually touched by President Kennedy's casket, Mrs Kennedy, and the Secret Service?

For being such an important piece of history (and the fact somebody saw fit to keep it in existence all these years), I would think the car would bring top dollar IF it had been correctly restored and IF somebody had the foresight to keep the original components to sell with the car.
 

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Somehow, I suspect Barrett-Jackson doesnt care what the PCS thinks or are very interested in accuracy. All they care about is making as much money as they can. I really don't see them contacting us or responding to any corrections from a "bunch of basement bloggers".
 
Dan said when he saw the car he was vary disappointed in it. some one looking to save Hx No, just looking to make a buck. run it threw clean it up and sell it. but maybe I'm to harsh. for most people this is a expertly restored back to the day it left the factory car. mostly because the paint shines and there are no wear patterns in the interior. none of the glass is broken. they did at least detail the engine bay. that is more then a lot of people will do. the plunger has to be for the air vent. open it, it draws cab in threw the cooler close it and it will recirculate the air in the back.

you have to remember Jackie was siting back there. the casket was in the car. the rear seat had to be down. she most likly never knew how to turn the AC on. so rolled the glass down to get some air. kind of like her trying to get in the Pontiac on the drivers side. not a day for thinking clearly for anyone. the only guy that knew how to operate the car was still dusting off his pants from getting pulled out of it by the SS
 
We saw the car

Nedra and I found the 64 M/M last winter, about 1 1/2 miles SE of Sky Harbor airport in Phoenix, in a warehouse full of Mustangs. I had a hard time opening the hood, but when I did get it open, the M/M builders plate showed that it is Serial # 1 , for 1964.
 
Serial #1

That was the convention car and is indeed the Vernon O'Neal car. TPC issue #142 will show a photograph of its rear end on the NFDA convention floor in Dallas, just about a month before it became a historical artifact. Thanks to Ardeen Vaughan for preserving it all those years. (Yes I know he made money off of it, but he saved it so I don't care that he made money on it.)
 
Bill wrote:

I think your estimate of $25,000 for a beautiful, almost fifty year old coach is a bit light, don't you?



Bill,

That is what "I" think the car is worth. Reading that the car is not actually as nice as it looks and I can see yellowing in some of the white interior,etc, that's my opinion on the value.

I have bought a few incredible cars (in my opinion) in the last few years for less than that price and would rather have any of the ones I bought over this '64.

I agree that there are cars worth MUCH more than 25,000.00. Some even a few hundred thousand. I think some cars get sold too cheap too.

I'm sure the fact that JFK rode in it will make someone spend a crazy amount on it but without that fact, it is a 25,000.00 car to me. By the way, I wouldn't even offer 1/2 that much as I personally don't want that year or style of car.


I do find the whole JFK / Jackie story fascinating as I have toured Daley Plaza and the 4th (? - 7th) floor book depository museum / grassy knoll in Dallas about 12 years ago. I think Jackie was a stunning lady too !


I guess we will see what comes of the sale and future of a car that the body of JFK rode in almost 50 years ago.


I know when a "TV star" sells a car at the B-J auction, it usually fetches more money and this will be another car that sells for a un-real amount of money. Un-real or un-realistic amount, how ever you look at it.


Peace,
Darren
 
Darren Bedford said:
Bill wrote:

I think your estimate of $25,000 for a beautiful, almost fifty year old coach is a bit light, don't you?



Bill,

That is what "I" think the car is worth. Reading that the car is not actually as nice as it looks and I can see yellowing in some of the white interior,etc, that's my opinion on the value.

I have bought a few incredible cars (in my opinion) in the last few years for less than that price and would rather have any of the ones I bought over this '64.

I agree that there are cars worth MUCH more than 25,000.00. Some even a few hundred thousand. I think some cars get sold too cheap too.

I'm sure the fact that JFK rode in it will make someone spend a crazy amount on it but without that fact, it is a 25,000.00 car to me. By the way, I wouldn't even offer 1/2 that much as I personally don't want that year or style of car.


I do find the whole JFK / Jackie story fascinating as I have toured Daley Plaza and the 4th (? - 7th) floor book depository museum / grassy knoll in Dallas about 12 years ago. I think Jackie was a stunning lady too !


I guess we will see what comes of the sale and future of a car that the body of JFK rode in almost 50 years ago.

I know when a "TV star" sells a car at the B-J auction, it usually fetches more money and this will be another car that sells for a un-real amount of money. Un-real or un-realistic amount, how ever you look at it.


Peace,
Darren
Click to expand...

My apologies Darren, I agree with everything tou have said. I have also bought and sold some decent professional cars for much less than $25K. I must have been suffering from a "B-J" moment.
 
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