Casket Cover

[Bill Carlin]

As an outsider I'll ask: Are you allowed to ship a body across state lines without it having been embalmed? Just curious.

These laws vary from state to state. Minnesota does not require embalming unless the remains are (1) being transported by common carrier (Commercial Airline, Train, etc), (2) not buried or cremated within 72 hours of death, (3) publicly viewed, or (4) if orderd by the health department. As far as getting the paper work to transport, this also varies from state to state. In Minnesota, I, as a mortician can get a transit permit almost immediately after death.

 

[Kent Dorsey]

Several Funeral Directors here gasp at the sight of Houston's casket without a drape on it... though we know of firms who commonly do this, it is a bit more suprising when we see "naked" trucks on a high profile funeral...

 

[John ED Renstrom]

what a waste. I saw some of the most beautiful wood caskets when we visited tony's dad. they were made buy a locale builder in Northern min. for me they put those tin high priced boxes to shame. money just doesn't buy quality these days. anything you got to be that careful with makes no sense to me. whn I go make it simple and lets enjoy ourselves.

 

[Darren Bedford]

Batesville Millennium Casket photo

 

[Shawn Blyler]

I am with Darren on this one--casket must be the silver, Millennium model. The Promethean is definitely gold.

 

[Steve Lichtman]

Alright, I have a question relating to the casket. When they were carrying the casket, they have it on their shoulders, without their arms/hands holding it. What keeps it in place?

 

[Rocky Fluegge]

I biggest problem with that high end caskets is a shame you only get to see it for such a short time. It looks like such a georgous work of art.

 

[Doug Watson]

Luck. I tried it once with a group of guys and empty casket. It is very difficult at first, you all have to be same height and step in unison. The casket sits in the groove of your neck/shoulder and you all have to stay balanced. That way of carrying became popular with Princess Diana. Rarely see it, unless someone is trying to put on a show of sorts. You have to have professional pall bearers who have practiced it. Can't throw that on a group of 70 yr old guys...hee hee

 

[Doug Watson]

Embalming

I'm going to put my $$ on she was embalmed in CA....After a body is autopsied, it is a mess of fluid, etc. Being a full autopsy, the cranium was removed...without being gross, when they remove the skull, if you don't properly put it back in place, it can somewhat traumatize the skin around the forehead. And positioning as soon as possible would be a concern. Even though she was private jet, embalming would have certainly been required. UNLESS, they can provide enough dry ice for preservation. Some religions don't allow embalming so being transported with dry ice is an option, if certain other requirements are met ( no communicable disease ). Does anybody know what type of container she was transported in on the jet. That will give us a big clue. If it was a cot, definately embalmed, a casket, probably emblamed, can't think of why she wouldn't have been embalmed in CA. No reason.....best results as quickly as possible.

 

[Chris Elzie]

my guess is they were hired professional pallbearers I have seen a picture with a group of men like this caring on their shoulders, it was also on the eastern coast. I cant seem to find the picture now though.

 

[Jim Staruk]

my guess is they were hired professional pallbearers I have seen a picture with a group of men like this caring on their shoulders, it was also on the eastern coast. I cant seem to find the picture now though.

The caskets of the three sisters who died in the Christmas morning fire in CT (along with their grandparents) were carried on the shoulders of the firemen who tried to save them.

 

[Bill Carlin]

I agree, these are probably professional pall bearers. When you talk to non-professional pall bearers, you are lucky if they know how to lift with their hand, much less hoist it up to their shoulder. This is a skill that takes practice. While I have never worked on the east coast, it is my understanding that placing the casket on the shoulders is a long time tradition and is usually done by professionals or organizations (such as the fire department shown, or faternal orginazations)

 

[Martin Harvey]

Steve: Gravity!

 

[Shawn Blyler]

Alright, I have a question relating to the casket. When they were carrying the casket, they have it on their shoulders, without their arms/hands holding it. What keeps it in place?

I actually saw this part of the funeral. As I was watching, I thought it was odd when they first lifted the casket off the church truck that no one was using the handles on the side--they lifted it by the bottom of the casket. They were facing the casket, lifted it, then all turned to face frontwards and in one quick, amazing move, hoisted it up on their shoulders and walked out. No one was using their hands to hold it anywhere. I did notice that they were in order of height, that is, the taller guys at the back on each side, then shorter ones toward the front on each side. That is the only way it would have worked so that it sat on each of their shoulders. Pretty cool I thought.

 

[Abe Bush]

I'm going to put my $$ on she was embalmed in CA....After a body is autopsied, it is a mess of fluid, etc. Being a full autopsy, the cranium was removed...without being gross, when they remove the skull, if you don't properly put it back in place, it can somewhat traumatize the skin around the forehead. And positioning as soon as possible would be a concern. Even though she was private jet, embalming would have certainly been required. UNLESS, they can provide enough dry ice for preservation. Some religions don't allow embalming so being transported with dry ice is an option, if certain other requirements are met ( no communicable disease ). Does anybody know what type of container she was transported in on the jet. That will give us a big clue. If it was a cot, definately embalmed, a casket, probably emblamed, can't think of why she wouldn't have been embalmed in CA. No reason.....best results as quickly as possible.

That makes sense to me. While I'm not in the funeral business, it's my understanding that it's important to embalm A.S.A.P. especially after an autopsy, as Doug points out above. Not only to stop the natural process of decay -- which it's my understanding begins within hours if not refrigerated -- but also to seal all cavities from leaking fluids that may otherwise run about more freely after the full autopsy was completed.

And it's also a matter of sanitation because embalming the body not only preserves the body and makes it suitable for public viewing, but it also sanitizes the remains as well.

I would think it would generate a lot of unwanted press if any mishaps due to not being embalmed were to happen while in transit from CA to NJ...probably just a matter of common sense to get her embalmed immediately upon completetion of the autopsy is my thinking.

Abe

 

[Bill Carlin]

Yes, the best results are gained by embalming remains as soon after death as possible, However, an autopsy changes this ans we do not know the extent of the exam. Normally all internal organs are removed, including the brain. There are times when only patial exams are done, or only chemical exams. However, I would be very surprised if the medical examinar didn't do everything they could do because of the high profiile of the case. If the cause of death was chemical abuse of any kind, there may have been chemical burns on the skin of the face, etc. This would make viewing difficult, but not impossible.

From my 20+ years of embalming, once an autopsy is done, the embalming results are never as good and a delay of a few hours after removal from a medical examinar (flying time from California to the east coast) would have little impact on the results because the blood has been drained and blood clots are very no longer an issue. Messy, yes, but a good body bag would contain the situation just fine during transport. Decomposition of remains will start almost immdeiately after death but not enough to cause issues for an experienced embalmer even after several hours. If the remains are refridgerated, days can go by and the remains can be embalmed and viewed.

I doubt that any embalming took place in the medical examiners office...OSHA would be all over that one!

 

[Abe Bush]

Yes, the best results are gained by embalming remains as soon after death as possible, However, an autopsy changes this ans we do not know the extent of the exam. Normally all internal organs are removed, including the brain. There are times when only patial exams are done, or only chemical exams. However, I would be very surprised if the medical examinar didn't do everything they could do because of the high profiile of the case. If the cause of death was chemical abuse of any kind, there may have been chemical burns on the skin of the face, etc. This would make viewing difficult, but not impossible.

From my 20+ years of embalming, once an autopsy is done, the embalming results are never as good and a delay of a few hours after removal from a medical examinar (flying time from California to the east coast) would have little impact on the results because the blood has been drained and blood clots are very no longer an issue. Messy, yes, but a good body bag would contain the situation just fine during transport. Decomposition of remains will start almost immdeiately after death but not enough to cause issues for an experienced embalmer even after several hours. If the remains are refridgerated, days can go by and the remains can be embalmed and viewed.

I doubt that any embalming took place in the medical examiners office...OSHA would be all over that one!

That makes a lot of sense Bill, thanks for pointing that out and clearing it up. Bearing that in mind, then I guess it would make more sense that they probably did wait until they got her to NJ then.

Abe

 

[Jonathan Murphy]

If I may, let me add my two cents worth on the embalming question.

Most embalmers are just never satisfied with the work of embalmers who are not on their staff. Very rarely has my funeral home received a shipped in body that didn't need some additional work, extra makeup or just a general cleaning up. Granted, I don't know what they had to start with, but I sometimes get the impression that an embalmer may not care as much if he or she knows that the body is leaving their funeral home. I'm sure I will receive some negative feedback, but I am just relating my experiences. However, on the flip side of the coin, I have had to ship out some "less than stellar" bodies. I try to do the best I can on every body I embalm, but when you have someone that has been in ICU for weeks on end and has been pumped full of oxygen and IV fluids, there is only so much you can do. This goes back to what I said about not knowing what you had to start with.

Now, back to the topic at hand. In a high profile case, more than likely, you want the body back at your firm in your prep room so you can do the work. Was she embalmed in CA? I don't know. I suspect that she wasn't unless the funeral home in NJ had some type of working relationship with a funeral home in CA. However, Bill was right in every aspect of what he said. No matter what the "experts" tell you and as Bill said, you will never get as good of results with an autopsy as you do with someone who is embalmed within a few short hours after death. So, knowing all the aspects of the transportation available, (LA morgue to prep room in 5-6 hours) I would have wanted her shipped to my firm unembalmed, not so I can take credit for it, but so I couldn't blame anybody else if the results were poor.

 

[Mike Burkhart - Deceased 1948 - 2016]

Back to the original subject at hand. We have a clear casket cover we use if the weather is inclement. That was a casket cover, not a cot cover. A cot cover is too small to fit over a casket.

Their intention to use that cover was just for advertising purposes only, no other reason. The weather was not bad there(My opinion). That was in poor taste. Funerals are to memorialize the deceased, not to advertise for more business.

 

[Jim Staruk]

From my 20+ years of embalming, once an autopsy is done, the embalming results are never as good ...

Bill, although it might take a little longer to embalm an autopsied body, I was always told a properly autopsied body results in a far better embalmed body. I won't get into specifics here, but I'm surprised you haven't seen this in your 20+ years.