JFK Pontiac ambulance up for auction

Hello everyone...I joined your interesting site here after seeing this story unfold from Jalopnik.

I just wanted to encourage those of you who have a keen interest in ferreting out the truth about this car.

To an onlooker like myself, it is liking watching a real crime drama play out in real time.

I have also enjoyed your web albums and the history of the ambulance and hearse industry.

Lastly, I think you will have better luck in tracing back the auction car as opposed to trying to glean anything more from the destroyed cars history, as I am pretty convinced the actual car was indeed destroyed. I think the irony in all of this is that the auction car would probably have sold as a movie car replica ....it still invokes memories to many of us anyway, and an honest replica to me is better than an outright fake. Distorting history is wrong and disrespectful to all of us, and only serves the person who is doing it. So again I would like to encourage you fine folks to keep tracing back the auction car to to its logical end. Thanks and have a great day.
 
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Military I.D. Tag Specs - '71 Crown Army Ambulance

I found the original specifications and revisions for the 1971 Crown ambulance conversion ordered for the Army Tank Automotive Command and delivered August 25, 1971 to Michigan. Here is the information on the I.D. Plate requested on March 2, 1971:

Data Plates - Non-Ferrous

Ambulance Conversion Name Plate (Mtd near Driver)

Make and Model
Mtg. Serial No.
Registration No.
FSH No.
Vehicle Curb Weight
Payload Maximum
Gross Weight, Rating Max.
Date of Delivery
Waranty
Contract No.
U.S. PROPERTY

Warranty Decal mtg. center of Dash
 
I watched the auctions on TV and there was so much speculation on this car I can't believe it actually went across the auction block. I just stumbled on to this thread and it was great. Lots of opinions.
 
Fascinating discussion here that I happened upon.
Saw a similar Navy Grey car on eBay about a year and a half ago, and had a discussion with the owner about its pedegree. It was a rough example, but appeared to be one of the original 15 63's built. Car was out in California, and owner was asking 2500.00. Had I known then what I know now, I would have saved the pictures. It had a different assignment number, and it was allegedly a West Coast assigned car.
Thanks for the Website.
 
Fascinating discussion here that I happened upon.
Saw a similar Navy Grey car on eBay about a year and a half ago, and had a discussion with the owner about its pedegree. It was a rough example, but appeared to be one of the original 15 63's built. Car was out in California, and owner was asking 2500.00. Had I known then what I know now, I would have saved the pictures. It had a different assignment number, and it was allegedly a West Coast assigned car.
Thanks for the Website.

to bad you did not save a picture as we feel it was that car that went across the block at BJ
 
So the evidence points to the Kosoff car being the same car that was sold at BJ?
If this is so, we need to try and verify where this mystery car is located now.
That would surely lead to some answers, I would think.
I would like to help, but I don't have a clue as to how or where to find this info out. Anyone?:smileflag:
 
the bj car is now in grand Junction colorado. Bob has his car out in calf listed on e-bay a few years back along with the white parts car. I snaged a couple of pictures of it then but dumped them with he had it listed in CV s they were beter pictures.
 
We know where the auction car is, no mystery there....but what we need to find out is where is the Kosoff car ? That is what needs to be revealed.Find out where that car is (or isn't), and I think some real answers will come to light.
Most of these other things are just "red herrings". Lets try and stay with finding the Kosoff car....That is the key here I would think.:17875:
 
We know where the auction car is, no mystery there....but what we need to find out is where is the Kosoff car ? That is what needs to be revealed.Find out where that car is (or isn't), and I think some real answers will come to light.
Most of these other things are just "red herrings". Lets try and stay with finding the Kosoff car....That is the key here I would think.:17875:

The BJ Auction car IS the Kosoff car. It's pretty much been proven through pictures in this thread. Although no one has gotten an actual look at the title, it has the exact same (incorrect) lettering on the sides, and by comparing the auction footage to a known picture of the Kosoff car it was shown that it has the same dents in the passenger seat trim, as well as the EXACT same folds/wrinkles in the seat material in that area. Not to mention every other detail seems to match up, including the antenna mounting plate hole cover on the back of the car. It appears the Kosoff car had its siren and lollipop lights removed, and many people have remarked that the car looks repainted in those areas.
 
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The problem is that even though is is clearly the "Kosoff" vehicle, to believe it is ALSO the very same one that transported JFK would require that:

1. At one point, a previous owner (Kosoff, Jensen, or perhaps someone in between) started claiming that it was the historically significant vehicle even when no such claim had ever previously been made, even when the it was offered for sale as late as 2009 for $41,000. Jensen did say in the B-J press conference held just before the auciton that at the time he bought it, it WAS claimed to be one that carrried JFK.

2. "Proof" (in the form of the Hogan-Shields letters) that it was said vehicle came to light in late 2010, and has now been discredited (and the data plate's authenticity called into question as well), but that still does not prove it WASN'T the car. :rolleyes:

Assuming Jensen was duped, then the Navy data plate had to have been on the car BEFORE he bought it. Since it showed the same numbers that appeared on the door of the vehicle in the Andrews AFB footage from the night of the assassination, he undertook an "exhaustive" search to prove it was legitimate. Said search did not include following up on ANY lead, even one that might disprove the claim, since he was clearly told in August 2010 (after showing the car at a convention for military vehicles) that the real ambulance was destroyed and he immediately rejected such information out of hand (see professionalcar.org thread).

Happily for him, the search for proof was ultimatley successful in "the fall of 2010" (as stated by Jensen in the B-J press conference), just in time to offer the vehicle at the Scottsdale auction. As for where this proof came from, in the words of B-J's Steve Davis at the same press conference...."who knows".
 
1963 Military Data Tag and Lettering Specifications

I found a September, 1963 order for 4 buses to Army Tank Automotive Center, Detroit from Crown Coach Corp., Los Angeles.

These specs are different from the 1971 Crown ambulance specs that I sent previously.

Here are the paragraphs of interest:

TREATMENT, PAINTING, AND DATA PLATES - As specified by the procuring activity for the appropriate service (see 6.2), treatment, painting and data plates shall be in accordance with Standard MIL-STD-1223................Dissimilar metal parts shall be treated with zinc-chromate primer or otherwise isolated to preclude electrolytic action, prior to assembly and finishing.

MARKING - As specified by the procuring activity for the appropriate service (see 6.2), marking and registration numbers shall be in accordance with Standard MIL-STD-1223. LETTERING LATER

--------------------

I can't find any attached lettering information, or what 6.2 is for, but I'll check other orders from a year or so later. Both the MIL- STD 642 and 1223 can be found on the web, at least back to 1982. I'm sure someone has an earlier guide to see if anything is different back to the '60's.

This may mean that different branches of the service requested different metals in their ID tags - will a Navy be aluminum and an Air Force be brass?

---------------------------
 
This may mean that different branches of the service requested different metals in their ID tags - will a Navy be aluminum and an Air Force be brass?

---------------------------

the other way around but yes. the navy used brass tags, air force aluminium and the army I have see were stainless steel.
 
the other way around but yes. the navy used brass tags, air force aluminium and the army I have see were stainless steel.

I have seen both stainless and brass on Army vehicles, depending on when they were manufactured. It seems like WW II thru the Viet Nam era most of the military tactical vehiles had brass.
 
We missed "the unveiling" yesterday...

controversial_unveiling.jpg
 
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