What's it worth?

L

Loren Baldwin

A hypothetical if you will. What would an all original complete '64 MM Landau end loader needing new front floor and outer rockers all the down be potentially worth? Front seat needs recovering but the rest of the interior is in great shape. Interior lights work, everything's there except rollers and bier pins. Chrome is in good shape, no pitting. Runs and drives. Paint is faded and probably be redone. It has the crinkle paint on the roof and is good. Your answers could possibly help me make a decision in the future. Before anyone asks, I have no pictures since this is a hypothetical ;)
 
bless you Danny, you would know for sure. complete restored licenced ready to drive home if you payed 8000 for one, it was because you fell in love with it and just had to have that one. now then as you fall back in years they will gain more money about every decade but not double in price unless original with vary little or nothing wrong. combos are worth a little more because they have more interest and ambulance's a little more yet because they are no longer made. there are some exceptions as to more desirable with in a group. military ambulances will normally bring about half the civy counterparts. as always the I really want that car factor always come into play. but like Danny said
unrestored with some major damage but a running car 1 to 3.
that being said I forked over 5 for one needing minor interior work rust on two doors and a complete paint job with minor mechanical problems normal to the car. drove it home. if you want it and you have it buy it. you'll never get back out of it what you put in it money wise. you get it because you want it and you enjoy the car for what it is. that and the comradery that goes with owning one and begin with this group of guys.
 
John ED Renstrom said:
bless you Danny, you would know for sure. complete restored licenced ready to drive home if you payed 8000 for one, it was because you fell in love with it and just had to have that one. now then as you fall back in years they will gain more money about every decade but not double in price unless original with vary little or nothing wrong. combos are worth a little more because they have more interest and ambulance's a little more yet because they are no longer made. there are some exceptions as to more desirable with in a group. military ambulances will normally bring about half the civy counterparts. as always the I really want that car factor always come into play. but like Danny said
unrestored with some major damage but a running car 1 to 3.
that being said I forked over 5 for one needing minor interior work rust on two doors and a complete paint job with minor mechanical problems normal to the car. drove it home. if you want it and you have it buy it. you'll never get back out of it what you put in it money wise. you get it because you want it and you enjoy the car for what it is. that and the comradery that goes with owning one and begin with this group of guys.
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Yeah, what he said! If you get a fixer upper you will have a hard time recouping your investment if you spend alot on it. Better to start where someone else already did the work.
 
I think Steve Loftin put it best in another thread on here somewhere ".........you'll put $35,000 to 40,000 in it, and have a nice $25,000 car when you get done (parphrasing).....".
 
Whenever some one describes a car as needing floors and rockers, that tell me with little doubt that the car is harboring other problems that are yet to be discovered, and rarely if ever is it worth saving. When the floors and rockers are rotted than there are also other problems that will need to be addressed, such as frame rust through. In the car collector hobby, there are those that start with a poor candidate for restoration, and sink a lot of money into a car only to become disillusioned along the way, and then they abandon the project. Then it goes to the next visionary, that believes that they can continue the process, until one day, it is retired to the back yard, only to rust away again. I have seen this happen all too often. Mechanical issues are a lot easier to resolve than body issues. Whenever considering a car, always keep in mind that whatever you think it is going to cost to fix it, that if you double or triple that estimate, you are a lot closer to the truth.
 
I know Paul we had talked about one I wanted to save, but this one is much more intact. I was hoping this was gonna be a 3-way but it isn't. From my inspections of this era car, the rust seems to be on par with what I will usually find. I know that pans and rockers are easy to find and easy to install so it shouldn't be such a big deal. Although I know that the possibility exists there is more than just rocker rust. Honestly though, the craigslist ad doesn't have pics worth posting. He's asking $2000 so that's good he's within the range. I'll be upfront with saying that if I do purchase the car, I'm only going to fix the rust. My 59 is the crown jewel, the 64 would be the working man's one.
 
I think that Danny's estimate is a good one, with the information provided. Personally, even though the '63-'67 Cadillacs are good looking, I'd be hesitant because of the 429 engines in them.

In my own experience with my very first hearse, '67 Superior limousine style 3-way, the 429 engine tends to blow oil by the rings, making it come OUT the oil fill tube as a vapor, condensing on the top engine pan. Look STRAIGHT down into the engine, directly toward the front of the oil fill tube. If you see oil pooled there, that's what I'm talking about. After a long drive on a hot day (such as driving from Fort Wayne Indiana to Atlanta GA to attend PCS 1990) this oil will even vaporize and stink up the driver's compartment as you drive. Not very pleasant! I tried many things, short of an engine rebuild, to cure that problem, including Delco Top Engine Cleaner. Nothing worked. I eventually sold the car. Tom
 

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I would start with the price of scrape and go up to maybe 15-17 hundred. a rust problem can cost you more than half of your restoration budget.
 
I was unaware of that problem with the 429. There isn't really much more details to share about the car. The body is straight with no dings or dents. Of course the paint is faded in spots but that's to be expected. I don't think I can emphasize enough how good condition the rear interior is. That's one of the reasons why I'm still considering the car. I'm going to look at the car tomorrow, I'll take some pictures and post them for evaluation. I'm on the fence about the car frankly. I think maybe if I made a list of pros and cons it'd help me out. The make or break part for me will be driving the car and some other mechanical questions I have for the owner.

From what I'm gathering by everyone's opinion, if I repaired the rust myself, there wouldn't be much margin for profit, if any, if I sell the car. It's not that I'd buy it just to flip it, I'd just like a little bit of assurance that even if spend a nominal bit on repairs I wouldn't lose my shirt.
 
if your in a position to be able to do any repairs your self then your that far in front of others. if you know a hole in the floor is a lot different then the floor gone and a spot of rust in the normal places is different then no rocker left. you can tell if it's beyond your ability. then your dealing with a MM not a superior so that is a plus in the repair department.
 
I've seen enough of your car photos to safely say you know what to look for & can compare price vs. condition. You know what you can handle in fabrication so go into it with an open mind and use your best judgement. Coaches surface all the time for $800 and up, so take into consideration what all is there, straight, intact, complete, and missing. An old coach that's rotten & half it's trim broken or missing don't bring much $ for sure. A complete & straight coach needing some rust repair in the floors & quarters plus other usual expenses? That is something you need to look at differently and weigh the pros & cons like you said.

If it's something you like & can afford it, buy it & enjoy it if you feel it isn't overpriced. Especially if you can make it a "driver" with a few repairs. I've had 2 with the 429, the '67 M-M was fantastic to drive & so is the '66 ambulance. If something breaks we'll fix it, that's what we do. Personally I think a 1 - 2K price is low for what you describe, but alot of us watch the internet & know they go for a good deal more than that in very savable shape but with a few issues.

Sometimes you do find a smoking deal, other times you have to man up & pay more if you see the potential is there just like Ed said. Good luck & keep us posted!
 
Loren Baldwin said:
...From what I'm gathering by everyone's opinion, if I repaired the rust myself, there wouldn't be much margin for profit, if any, if I sell the car. It's not that I'd buy it just to flip it, I'd just like a little bit of assurance that even if spend a nominal bit on repairs I wouldn't lose my shirt.
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Profit? PROFIT? What's that? You never make a profit on a professional car. Not gonna happen. Like the above comment about the 25K car, you will always end up putting more into it than it'll ever be "worth". So you buy it and fix it and put money in it because you like it.

If you like your procar, you don't need a shirt!
 
Steve Lichtman said:
Profit? PROFIT? What's that? You never make a profit on a professional car. Not gonna happen. Like the above comment about the 25K car, you will always end up putting more into it than it'll ever be "worth". So you buy it and fix it and put money in it because you like it.

If you like your procar, you don't need a shirt!
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Well, I could always forge some documents saying someone important was transported in the car and send it Barrett-Jackson ;)
 
Alright, so long story short...the car wasn't worth the asking price, but apparently two guys are having a bidding war and have exceeded the asking price. The owner showed me some paperwork, and I saw a PCS application addressed to a David Puckett. Don't know if he's a member or not, but it seems that this car is rather well known in the area. He had a newspaper article about it and some other stuff. So while I passed on it, it seems that a few people are interested in it so maybe it'll be saved.
 
You know, this usually happens after I go to look at cars that I don't end up buying. I find a deal on a different car that I can't pass up on. It's no pro-car, but it's something I've wanted since I bought my 65 Galaxie...

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Loren Baldwin said:
I'll take some pictures and post them for evaluation.
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You went and looked at the car. I know you said you passed on this one but where are the pictures? Your original question on the value of the car was the point of this thread. We can still discuss that since it hypothetical anyway.
 
Loren Baldwin said:
You know, this usually happens after I go to look at cars that I don't end up buying. I find a deal on a different car that I can't pass up on.
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For me it happens right after I line up all of the cars for a group photo. The last time I lined them up I took this photo.

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Then I found and bought this the next day.

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Richard Vyse said:
Show off. Just kidding Kevin. Very nice collection but you failed to mention the beautiful hearse you have as well. :applause:
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Well there's the hearse, an '06 DTS, and a 1962 Series 62 Sedan.

I sold the dark green '99 Deville (big mistake selling that one) and the white 1990 Sedan deVille now owns Brad Ross (since before Thanksgiving 2009).

I'll take a new group photo this summer.
 
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