starter help

Rocky Fluegge

Rocky Fluegge

PCS Member
Well this has been messing with me now for a few weeks. Here is what i have going on.

I pulled my 57 desoto out of the corner of the shop where it has been resting for too many years. Last time i ran it was about ten years ago.

well first try i put a battery in it and tried to start it nothing. I pulled the starter and tested it not good so i sent it out for a rebuild, they went tru it all replaced field coil brushes ect, and put a brand new selinoid on it. i put it in the car and still nothing.

I realizied the starter relay was also bad so i got a new one and replaced it. while i was at it i also did new battery cables and made a new wire going down to the selinoid.

Now when i hit the key it turns over and will not quit till i pull the battery cable off of the battery. I pulled the starter back out tested it on the floor with a battery charger. it worked the way it is suppose to. i took it back to the rebuild shop. They tested it and said it seemed fine. but they ordered another selinoid and put it on. They asked me how good was the battery. It was a used one but tested fine. So just to be sure i bought a new 800 cca battery put it in the car also.

Well put the starter back in the car. same problem if i hit the key and turn it over, it will keep turning over until i pull the cable off the battery. I also took a starter button and hooked it up to the starter relay same problem.

The only thing that i have not replace is the ignition switch?? any idea what is going on? At this stage of the game this thing is driving me flipping crazy.

Oh in case it matters the new starter relay i ground off the paint where it mounts so the ground is good, and i sanded the block where the starter and block comes together, and i also lubed up the starter gear also. i checked the ring gear it is in great shape no broken teeth and burs. Also the mopar starters cannot be shimmed out like the gm starters it fits into the block and two nut tighten it up not much movement.

Any answers or ideas, befor i roll this outside and start it on fire and watch it burn???:goodnight_smi:
 
Rocky, sounds to me like an ignition switch. The key is turned to a start position against a spring that once it is started returns the ignition switch into the run position. Any electrical contact cleaner at home? If not just take a little kerosene into a squirt bottle shoot it into the ignition switch, operatimg the key in it a bit. It may just be corrosion internally. Got an extra ignition switch to try, that will plug into the same coupler?
 
DO NOT SQUIRT KEROSENE INTO ANY ELECTRICAL CONTACT. FIRE COULD RESULT WHEN YOU ENGAGE THAT CIRCUIT.

I believe that the ground from the engine to the body isn't completing, so I would take the jumper cable from the negative terminal to the bumper to see if that corrects the problem. Then clip the other cable from the negative terminal directly to the starter relay case. It isn't a bad ignition switch, because if it were, when you remove the positive terminal from the battery and reconnect it, the starter would continue to turn. It is definately a bad ground somewhere that is causing the problem.
 
Danny Ryder said:
If manual tranny just park on a hill and roll it off. If automatic, get the matches and bag of marshmellows. Paul may be on to something with this one.
Click to expand...

This is not totally true. Don't know about all vehicle makes but do know with a ford up through 1966 you could roll start an automatic. Get her rolling and pull in gear and she would start. My 66 ford truck with factory automatic will do this.
 
Also - Check the replacement start relay that you got - there are alot of options, and it's possible you got the wrong one, some are operated by going to ground, some need battery voltage to the control circuit - if you got the wrong one, and hooked up the wiring as it was, it could be back feeding enough battery voltage to the starter to keep it turning. I've also seen the wrong solenoid weld the contacts inside and keep the starter engaged (although that would immediately start to turn if you hooked the battery back up.) If you bypass the start relay, and use the start button to directly activate the solenoid on the starter, does it stop turning when you release the button? I'm not familiar with '57 Desotos, so I'm just shooting from the hip, and personal experience with other things.:my2cents:
 
I'm fairly sure the 57 would push start. don't think they took the rear pump out till some were in late 60 early 70. a man always gets into this kind of trouble when he changes to much stuff. figuring the starter is now good? turn the key on, jump the solenoid. does it act the same? if not it's the key switch. if so put the old one back on. they vary seldom went bad on these cars. wd-40 is a better bet for the key switch the old graphite may have dried out in it as suggested. your experiencing a sitting problem. need to think along those lines. and bad ground is one that creeps up on a sitting car. the jumpers from the engine to the negative post is the test as described. the old adage of use it or lose it comes to mind at these times
 
Danny Ryder said:
This is not totally true. Don't know about all vehicle makes but do know with a ford up through 1966 you could roll start an automatic. Get her rolling and pull in gear and she would start. My 66 ford truck with factory automatic will do this.
Click to expand...

I would love to do that but, since i have not gotten it run i also haver not done the brakes yet.
 
Jacob M. Fournier said:
Also - Check the replacement start relay that you got - there are alot of options, and it's possible you got the wrong one, some are operated by going to ground, some need battery voltage to the control circuit - if you got the wrong one, and hooked up the wiring as it was, it could be back feeding enough battery voltage to the starter to keep it turning. I've also seen the wrong solenoid weld the contacts inside and keep the starter engaged (although that would immediately start to turn if you hooked the battery back up.) If you bypass the start relay, and use the start button to directly activate the solenoid on the starter, does it stop turning when you release the button? I'm not familiar with '57 Desotos, so I'm just shooting from the hip, and personal experience with other things.:my2cents:
Click to expand...

When i have tried it with the starter button it acts the same. the replacement starter relay i used is from a 60 desoto, pretty much the same wire configuration on it.
 
paul i think you are headed to the right direction, im going to check and see if there is a good ground strap on the engine, if not i know i have some and putting a new one im sure is not going to hurt. Im off this afternoon so im going to have another go around with it with some of the info i have. thanks for all the insite and ideas. I always say and the first to addmitt i know enough about electrical stuff to be dangerous. I will let you guys know what if anything happens. Thanks
 
Rocky

Was it the ground ?!

Trying to figure out a problem sometimes takes forever and pisses you off big time.

After you know what it is finally, it doesn't seem that big of a deal.

I hope you have it all sorted out !!!

Darren
 
Danny Ryder said:
This is not totally true. Don't know about all vehicle makes but do know with a ford up through 1966 you could roll start an automatic. Get her rolling and pull in gear and she would start. My 66 ford truck with factory automatic will do this.
Click to expand...

The early Ford transmissions have a rear pump, this allows you to pull/push start them just as you would a manual tranny.
 
Well happy to say the problem was fixed, but not until i brought in the hired gun. I have a guy that i had come and help me out on my 62 chrysler when i had some electrical problems. He is great with that stuff, and i know enought to get my self in trouble. He was here and the problem was fixed with in a hour.

Well when he came he brought some of his tools and electrical stuff and another starter relay.

the problem was not with the starter, or the ground, but the original starter relay was fine and so was the new 1960 desoto relay i put in. But as he explained to me the relays are just a magnitic switch. and the selinoid that was put on the starter even though it was the type that was original. internally it was diffrent. He refered it to a push pull magnitic type. Well the old relays would send a push signal, and not a pull back one. that is why it would keep running till i pulled the cable off.

So we put on the ford mopar style selenoid, and suprise every thing worked like it should. so long and short of it, the starter shop did not realize that there was a diffrence in the style's, they looked the same.

i tried to get the car to run put alittle gas down the carb and it fired right up till the gas ran out. The old fuel pump was bad, i went to my shelf and put a NOS one i had got it primed and the car jumped right to life!!!

It ran great, the idle was smooth and right now i hear one noisy lifter i let it run for about 15 minutes it ran great, i hope as i run it more the other lifter will pump back up and this thing will be really quiet.

So now that i know it runs so good again, i guess it on to rebuilding the brakes, and replacing a couple of freeze plugs that are starting to rust out and seep. "not really looking forward to that"

So that is the progress and thanks to every one that had a insite on what to try. i tried most all of the ideas to get it to work. Then i just knew i needed to bring in someone that is much better then me on these problem's.
 
once again it's a kid working on a older car. now don't forget to write down what you did so that 10 years from now you have a hint.
 
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