I was told by someone at a car show that I should have a "Out of Service" sign on both the windshield and back window of the Horton ? I'm not sure if I should or not ??
Out of Service sign ?
- Thread starter Mike Boyer
- Start date
Bill Leverett
PCS Member/Super Site Supporter/Paramedic Supervis
Given that your Horton is a "newer" ambulance, probably not a bad idea to ensure there is no confusion.
Less likely that a car based ambulance would be confused with a duty vehicle.
Also may prevent an unpleasant interaction with the OPP.
Less likely that a car based ambulance would be confused with a duty vehicle.
Also may prevent an unpleasant interaction with the OPP.
John ED Renstrom
PCS Member
now me I like the "not in service" out off is like having your street labeled dead end
Don't overestimate the general public's ability to discern between an antique emergency vehicle and a modern in-service one. I've heard recent stories of people driving restored police vehicles as old as '60s and '70s being flagged over by citizens needing some kind of contact.
There was some discussion in the PD car hobby about the use of "out of service" vs. "not in service" signage. The conclusion was the former is appropriate only if the vehicle can or will be returning to "in-service" status at some point which is highly unlikely with most antique or privately owned vehicles. Otherwise, most hobby vehicles should use the latter.
On my '80s restored patrol vehicle I've always used NOT IN SERVICE and it passes muster with the authorities around here.
Interestingly enough, I've observed that such signage is rarely used on privately owned ambulances and fire apparatus here.
There was some discussion in the PD car hobby about the use of "out of service" vs. "not in service" signage. The conclusion was the former is appropriate only if the vehicle can or will be returning to "in-service" status at some point which is highly unlikely with most antique or privately owned vehicles. Otherwise, most hobby vehicles should use the latter.
On my '80s restored patrol vehicle I've always used NOT IN SERVICE and it passes muster with the authorities around here.
Interestingly enough, I've observed that such signage is rarely used on privately owned ambulances and fire apparatus here.
Darren Bedford
PCS Member
I remember many ambulances attending PCS meets with the NOT IN SERVICE signs in the windows of the cars.
I do not see them as often anymore but a great way to eliminate any issues with the young police of today.
Some of the police officers today do not know that seat belts in most cars prior to 1976 were not there. I guess being born after the law changed makes it a new-to-me thing.
Best to make an effort rather than have to spend 45 minutes on the side of the road explaining it time after time.
Most of the old cars look so much better than the new or in service cars that the public at large has no idea they are actually OLD out of service cars.
Sometimes I am filling up for gas in a 60's hearse and people ask me if there is a body in the car. They think they are in service and current.
Remember that 70 percent of people are either young or not into cars and they have no clue what is in service or not in service.
Just because we obsess over these cars and know quite a bit about them, 99 percent of people know next to nothing about hearses and ambulances... including most car guys.
Just some things to keep in mind about our odd and unusual collectibles.
Drive on,
Darren
I do not see them as often anymore but a great way to eliminate any issues with the young police of today.
Some of the police officers today do not know that seat belts in most cars prior to 1976 were not there. I guess being born after the law changed makes it a new-to-me thing.
Best to make an effort rather than have to spend 45 minutes on the side of the road explaining it time after time.
Most of the old cars look so much better than the new or in service cars that the public at large has no idea they are actually OLD out of service cars.
Sometimes I am filling up for gas in a 60's hearse and people ask me if there is a body in the car. They think they are in service and current.
Remember that 70 percent of people are either young or not into cars and they have no clue what is in service or not in service.
Just because we obsess over these cars and know quite a bit about them, 99 percent of people know next to nothing about hearses and ambulances... including most car guys.
Just some things to keep in mind about our odd and unusual collectibles.
Drive on,
Darren
Peter Grave - Deceased - 1938 - 2022
PCS Member
The Pennsylvania State Police current spin is as follows. Emergency Lights of any type MUST be covered Ambulace,Police,logos MUST be covered. Spotlights Right side must not operate and must not have a bulb in it. Left side Newest unofficial spin same as right side. Current law unless recently changed left spotlight may be in place and operate and will not pass safety inspection if not working. My soon to retire trooper friend says beware as "some young bucks just out of the Academy are enforcing to the letter including no left spot light". I have to say in almost 50 years of buying collecting and selling used Emergency vehicles I have never been stopped or questioned by the Police perhaps because they are always operated on dealer tags. But my friend warns me don't expect that to continue. Everyone is paranoid 911 etc.
Martin Harvey
PCS Member
Dont know for Ontario but I was told here you should not put that kind of sign or cover just because it means the car can be in service another day. Since the Horton is old but have the general shape of a modern ambulance that could be helpful, dont forget to add "out of service since 1991" heh
Funny thing ....when I had the Horton at a car show on the weekend just about everyone I heard say "oh look an old or Antique Ambulance"
maybe I will put a small sign up just to satisfy the younger cops out there !
maybe I will put a small sign up just to satisfy the younger cops out there !
Kevin Lynch
PCS Member
The Florida side....
Maybe some people putting the signs on the car do it for a chuckle. Any time any "contractor" (body shop, paint shop, car dealer) takes a car with a roof bar back to their own shop, they have to put a cloth with an out of service sign on it. The cloth apparently is fitted for light bars.
Many years ago I diverted an EVOOA meet from FL when they checked with the highway patrol about my warnings. FHP administration told them they were at the mercy of each trooper...some would love seeing the old mustangs (on a trailer). I mentioned the fear that it is remotely possible that a law enforcement officer might seize the vehicle as well.
It's illegal in Florida to have a car in the paint scheme of the highway patrol.
Another issue: red lights facing forward: I've polled a lot of guys about how they would handle me if they didn't know me. The consensus was they're not red until they are activated. It's a stretch.
Maybe some people putting the signs on the car do it for a chuckle. Any time any "contractor" (body shop, paint shop, car dealer) takes a car with a roof bar back to their own shop, they have to put a cloth with an out of service sign on it. The cloth apparently is fitted for light bars.
Many years ago I diverted an EVOOA meet from FL when they checked with the highway patrol about my warnings. FHP administration told them they were at the mercy of each trooper...some would love seeing the old mustangs (on a trailer). I mentioned the fear that it is remotely possible that a law enforcement officer might seize the vehicle as well.
It's illegal in Florida to have a car in the paint scheme of the highway patrol.
Another issue: red lights facing forward: I've polled a lot of guys about how they would handle me if they didn't know me. The consensus was they're not red until they are activated. It's a stretch.
Just put ghost buster decals on the doors, and that should be enough to convince anyone it isn't in service.
Pennsylvania is extremely strict about the lights issue - given that they have nearly every volunteer firefighter who has blue lights on their cars, they have had to limit the numbers and amounts for everyone.
I've never been stopped by police for any of my ambulances. But I HAVE, on several occasions, had to stop or been flagged down for wrecks or medical emergencies. Funny to drive an antique professional car ambulance, in these modern times, and have somebody run out and flag me down saying, "He's over here, he's over here!" Fortunately, I do carry enough basic modern supplies with me to help in those situations.
Remember most importantly, US Federal Law requires that your vehicle meet the requirements of the state it is licensed in - you can't be ticketed because a different state has different laws on colors, etc. Even if a trooper says he can under state law, he is wrong (under Federal law). How that applies to Canadians in the US, or what's up in Canada, I don't know.
I've never been stopped by police for any of my ambulances. But I HAVE, on several occasions, had to stop or been flagged down for wrecks or medical emergencies. Funny to drive an antique professional car ambulance, in these modern times, and have somebody run out and flag me down saying, "He's over here, he's over here!" Fortunately, I do carry enough basic modern supplies with me to help in those situations.
Remember most importantly, US Federal Law requires that your vehicle meet the requirements of the state it is licensed in - you can't be ticketed because a different state has different laws on colors, etc. Even if a trooper says he can under state law, he is wrong (under Federal law). How that applies to Canadians in the US, or what's up in Canada, I don't know.
John ED Renstrom
PCS Member
a red light cannot be displayed forward on a private vehicle in SD the law clearly says displayed is turned on.
but in Wy you need to cover them as any warning light or siren on a private vehicle is forbidden. I had a HP let me read it right out of the book coming home from the Denver meet.
but in Wy you need to cover them as any warning light or siren on a private vehicle is forbidden. I had a HP let me read it right out of the book coming home from the Denver meet.
Mike Stevens
PCS Member
lights, signs, and license plates
While on my way to Milwaukee last year I was stopped just west of Richmond, Indiana. The trooper followed me for over 4 miles. I could see him talking to his shoulder (microphone) in my rearview mirror. He was so close I could not see the leading edge of the hood of his car. He finally turned the lights on and pulled me over. After getting my license and insurance he told me my plates were not registered....anywhere. I have year of manufacture on my 1961 M-M coach. Ohio has allowed driving on year of manufacture plates for many years now. My thinking was if I am legal in my home state I am legal anywhere. Not so in the mind of trooper Stewart. He said after I showed him my antique tags that I had to also display the black and white antique tag. The law in Ohio says that the 1961 plate is all I have to display. My registration says there are 2 numbers registering my coach. One for display and the other for antique registration. Trooper Stewart said that the law was to display both plate in his state. Yes, his state. He had no problem that my coach has a red Federal beacon light on the roof. It was not covered and was not lighted. It does work. Don't know how he would have reacted if he knew I had a working siren under the hood. He also seemed to have a problem with my having a US Marine Corps sign in my back window. He told me to cover the Marine sign with the antique tag and all would be good while I was in Indiana.
Mike
While on my way to Milwaukee last year I was stopped just west of Richmond, Indiana. The trooper followed me for over 4 miles. I could see him talking to his shoulder (microphone) in my rearview mirror. He was so close I could not see the leading edge of the hood of his car. He finally turned the lights on and pulled me over. After getting my license and insurance he told me my plates were not registered....anywhere. I have year of manufacture on my 1961 M-M coach. Ohio has allowed driving on year of manufacture plates for many years now. My thinking was if I am legal in my home state I am legal anywhere. Not so in the mind of trooper Stewart. He said after I showed him my antique tags that I had to also display the black and white antique tag. The law in Ohio says that the 1961 plate is all I have to display. My registration says there are 2 numbers registering my coach. One for display and the other for antique registration. Trooper Stewart said that the law was to display both plate in his state. Yes, his state. He had no problem that my coach has a red Federal beacon light on the roof. It was not covered and was not lighted. It does work. Don't know how he would have reacted if he knew I had a working siren under the hood. He also seemed to have a problem with my having a US Marine Corps sign in my back window. He told me to cover the Marine sign with the antique tag and all would be good while I was in Indiana.
Mike
John ED Renstrom
PCS Member
did you give him a WHOORA!!!
I got stopped one time going to the stay centrel meet in Il. the man told me that they like you to drive with current tags on a car. I had failed to renew my licence plates on the 72 for two rounds. gave me a warning ticket and said if I get stopped again just show them that. thanks you sir we do just that.
I got stopped one time going to the stay centrel meet in Il. the man told me that they like you to drive with current tags on a car. I had failed to renew my licence plates on the 72 for two rounds. gave me a warning ticket and said if I get stopped again just show them that. thanks you sir we do just that.
Year of Manufacturer license plates are a problem whenever you leave your registration state, and go 2 states over. Connecticut gives you a separate registration for the year of manufacturer plate that goes along with the historical plate. You need to carry the historical plates with you, but you don't have to display them, unless asked by a law enforcement official. My "best" year of manufacturer plate is on my 1978, and it reads SAMPLE. At first, they said it wasn't a valid plate, even though the state sold thousands of them to license plate collectors, however, when they checked the computer, they found that it had been issued in the past as a passenger car license plate, and that made it "qualified". I was told that they will not allow a "commercial" year of manufacturer plate, but didn't get the reasoning behind that determination.
Out of Service Sign
Mike:
Trooper Stewart was wrong as far as you putting the AQ plate in the rear window. Indiana law clearly states that license plates have to be mounted in their intended place. With your meeting with the trooper I would only assume he was a young trooper who was just trying to make a point. Also if he was talking into his lapel mike that would mean his regular car was down and he was driving an junk pool car which having been around are barley road worthy.. All of our troopers have their own cars and all are equipped with radios. except the pool cars. Hope you have better luck the next time you drive thru our
Mike:
Trooper Stewart was wrong as far as you putting the AQ plate in the rear window. Indiana law clearly states that license plates have to be mounted in their intended place. With your meeting with the trooper I would only assume he was a young trooper who was just trying to make a point. Also if he was talking into his lapel mike that would mean his regular car was down and he was driving an junk pool car which having been around are barley road worthy.. All of our troopers have their own cars and all are equipped with radios. except the pool cars. Hope you have better luck the next time you drive thru our
As far as I know Ontario does not have any law saying the warning lights have to be covered. I have seen a few old police cars even police Dept and fire Dept antique cars and trucks with all their lights and sirens still on them.
Wayne Krakowski
PCS Member
There are in Ontario many transfer services using old ambulances,they still have most of the lights on them,some replace the reds with white bulbs,each Ontario Ambulance (Regular) carries 2 orange signs showing not in service and on the reverse side first response unit,these signs are to be placed 1 on the dash facing out on drivers side and second on rear door drivers side,for taking units for servicing,or moving between stations or public relations events when only 1 medic is in the unit,the Ontario Provincial Police used to have a black tarp type bag that covered their lights when not in service at a garage.Just as a flashback and nostalgia was not the police car on "car 54 where are you"painted a different color from regular NYPD colors so as not to confuse with regular cruiser???