Mystery Car Thread

This particular car started life as a 1940-1941 Horch 853 sport cabriolet in November of 1945. You have to remember that after the war, anything that was still functional was pressed into service. Having no use for a sports cabriolet, and instead needing a fire engine, the car was converted. The body design was by a company called Lepil from Rousinov near Brno, the acrylic glass roof was built by a local company. This car was converted for the Brno-Komin fire department.

I am not clear on whether the fire department still owns this unit or not, but if it were to find its way into private ownership, it would certainly be re-bodied back into a sports cabriolet, as the high value of the Horch chassis would indeed merit such a restoration.

I appreciate Joaquim's post and he sounds like an expert about this vehicle, however I have some questions

1. Were Germans still building luxury sports cabriolet in 1940-1941? Germany was embroiled in WWII. It would seem that military vehicles would command the focus of auto manufacturers. But perhaps the cabriolet was made for an SS officer? I realize that these cars were cars of choice for the SS, so I guess this was possible.

I see little on this vehicle that looks like a 1940 853 Horch Sport Cabriolet. See picture below of the closest I cold find, 1937 853 Horch Sport Cabriolet.

2. Why was an exotic acrylic glass roof installed? It would seem more logical to have put this conversion effort into additional fire fighting equipment. Seems a strange addition to a fire fighter, a plastic roof would seem a poor idea in a vehicle that puts out fires.

3. Why squander precious post war resources to build a "play toy" fire pump? Why not grab the nearest military truck and build a more powerful fire fighter?

4. Looks like it has a crankshaft mounted pump. This would seem an involved task to mount this to a Horch v12 engine. Were Horch pumps available, or was some other brand mounted?

I just think there is more to this story.
 

Attachments

  • Horch-853-Sport-Cabriolet_1 (Medium).jpg
    Horch-853-Sport-Cabriolet_1 (Medium).jpg
    98.8 KB · Views: 401
It is my understanding that a procar is a professional car made on a commercial type chassis for use in funeral, limo, ambulance, firefighting, etc.
This Horch would seem to qualify.

This is the complete definition of a professional car as we see it:
A professional car is loosely defined as a custom-bodied vehicle based on passenger car styling and used in the funeral, rescue or livery services. Such vehicles may be hearses, flower cars, service cars, ambulances, limousines, or cars which are specially built to combine two or more of these functions, such as combination hearse-ambulances, sedan ambulances, or invalid coaches.
 
This is the complete definition of a professional car as we see it:
A professional car is loosely defined as a custom-bodied vehicle based on passenger car styling and used in the funeral, rescue or livery services. Such vehicles may be hearses, flower cars, service cars, ambulances, limousines, or cars which are specially built to combine two or more of these functions, such as combination hearse-ambulances, sedan ambulances, or invalid coaches.

Got it! So I leave off firefighting. Therefore this Horch would not be called a procar. What if it had a stretcher in the back instead of a fire hose?
 
Bill,

To try to answer your questions:

Yes, luxury cars were still in limited production, such as the Grosser Mercedes and Horch models. They were at this time, probably only available to the Nazi party or wealthy folk with plenty of political clout.

Take a close look at the hood, hood sides, and windshield frame. You will see these are the same, if not very close to the sport cabriolet. Slight differences exist in Horch models, as these were after all expensive bespoke automobiles.

The information I have gathered states that the original body of the car was removed and discarded, and the current, 4 door monstrosity created.

The reason the car is virtually unrecognizable in it's current guise is due to the original grill shell having been discarded when the front mounted pump was installed. In an effort to "modernize" the car, as well as protect the front pump, the flip front was designed, with it's heavy Buick-esque grille teeth.

The front and rear fenders were reworked to "update" the vehicle somewhat to late 1940's styling. Have a look at a DKW and you will see that the headlight placement is about the same. For all we know, DKW headlights were probably used in the conversion.

Also keep in mind that this car was little more than a war prize when it was converted. It was probably assigned or given to the fire department, and for all we know, they were probably allocated funding to do the conversion. Many Grosser Mercedes, and Horch automobiles sent to the Soviet Union were either cherished by the enlightened party officials, or turned into tractors by farmers having no practical use for a luxury car.

Many 1930's V12 or V16 Cadillacs wound up as tow trucks, fire pumpers, or snow plows when they fell out of fashion. If you recall the early 1930's V16 Cadillac ambulance that was auctioned a few months ago, it had also been modified from it's original configuration and made to look more modern, with skirted fenders and updated grill shell.

After WWII, the last thing you would probably want to be seen in was a Horch or Mercedes that belonged to the Nazi party. Here in the USA, however, many of these cars were brought over as war prizes, and it was quite "cool" to have one as a toy. The late Bob Hope had tons of Nazi memorabilia, including staff cars, touring cars, etc... all no doubt given to him during his tours entertaining the troops.

As to the pumper unit in front of the car, it was probably not too difficult to adapt this, as it is possible that this engine shared components with industrial engines or military applications. Keep in mind that individuals of any country emerging from a devastating war, will become very resourceful beings if the need arises.

While I have no idea why such a futuristic plexi glass covered body was needed, I'm certain there was some reasoning behind it. The important thing is that the car has survived, and will one day be restored into a proper Horch once again. European craftsmen are some of the most highly trained in the world, and I have personally seen them bring back cars where only a frame or engine were present.

While not a pro car by our definition, I am glad that this vehicle was brought to our attention, at the very least, it makes for interesting discussion
 
Joaquim,

Thank you for the fascinating replies!

So you feel that this was a "trophy", perhaps modified by the town or fire department.

Perhaps they had other vehicles and converted military trucks for more serious fire engagements?
 
Bill,

More than likely, it was a war trophy, or rather appropriated from some German estate. Remember many people just left whatever they had and fled, especially Nazi's and those who sided with them. After the war, especially in a communist controlled country, who had any money to buy gasoline? Everything was the property of the state, and if you had something they needed, or though you should not have, they just "appropriated" it.

Again, what use would a sports cabriolet, no matter how handsome it was, have been to a fire department? The Horch engine and chassis are very robust units, much like the Cadillac v8,12 and 16 chassis, and proved to be the perfect work horse for all sorts of conversions.

Many were turned into hearses and ambulances as well. Sometimes the coachwork was elegant, often times awful.

Many wound up of course in Argentina after the war. Those who saw that the war was not going to end in the Nazi's favor, made arrangements and left before the end of the war. This would account for the high number of high end, WWII era Mercedes (and Horch) cars that found their way to South America. Many of these cars are still in the possession of the descendants of their original Nazi owners. Somewhere there is a photo of a large number of European luxury cars, abandoned at a port, where their owners caught the ships that took them to other countries. Many of these cars were left with the keys in the ignitions.


An good English friend, recalls a story often told by his grandfather, who fought in WWII. His unit landed on an already deserted German location, and not finding any Germans to speak of, decided to look around. This fellow, and his friends came across a Horch limousine abandonded, with keys in ignition, and decided that they would take it back to England with them, to sell after the end of the war. Now, this was of course forbidden, and to be caught with a car would be akin to treason. The car was driven onto their ship, as they decided that it was worth the risk. The Captain of the ship of course allowed this after being promised a part of the profit after the wars end. About 3/4 of the way back, some naval cutters hailed them, and the Capitan, fearing a boarding and inspection, ordered the car to be rolled overboard. and it sadly was. So, somewhere on the ocean floor, there is an armored Horch limousine, or the rusty remains of one.
 
I kinda like it, most likely because of the long hood. I've always had a thing for Straight-8's, and all the chrome on the grill reminds me of '38 Buick, which I've also liked.
 
ProCar

I must be mistaken in my understanding.

I always believed that the term professional car referred to any vehicle that was built on a passenger car chassis and then converted (via coachwork) for a specific use.

Rescue, livery, funeral or any other type of conversion (including this car) would fit in to the definition, as I understand it.

If I am wrong, please slap me silly... and then provide the proper definition, so I can absorb this new understanding!

Over and out!

Rick
 
Slap slap. Not every use. You could convert a passenger car into a Weinermobile, but that doesn't make it a professional car. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
I must be mistaken in my understanding.

I always believed that the term professional car referred to any vehicle that was built on a passenger car chassis and then converted (via coachwork) for a specific use.

Rescue, livery, funeral or any other type of conversion (including this car) would fit in to the definition, as I understand it.

If I am wrong, please slap me silly... and then provide the proper definition, so I can absorb this new understanding!

Over and out!

Rick

Here's the straight skinny:

http://www.professionalcarsociety.info/

"A professional car is loosely defined as a custom-bodied vehicle based on passenger car styling and used in the funeral, rescue or livery services. Such vehicles may be hearses, flower cars, service cars, ambulances, limousines, or cars which are specially built to combine two or more of these functions, such as combination hearse-ambulances, sedan ambulances, or invalid coaches."
 
Here's the straight skinny:

http://www.professionalcarsociety.info/

"A professional car is loosely defined as a custom-bodied vehicle based on passenger car styling and used in the funeral, rescue or livery services. Such vehicles may be hearses, flower cars, service cars, ambulances, limousines, or cars which are specially built to combine two or more of these functions, such as combination hearse-ambulances, sedan ambulances, or invalid coaches."

Deja vu, I said that exact same thing in post #22 :rolleyes:
 
dog coach

for all you pet lovers Oscar meyer has built a coach for your puppy's last ride. that makes it a pro car for animals. case solved..
 
Here's the straight skinny:

http://www.professionalcarsociety.info/

"A professional car is loosely defined as a custom-bodied vehicle based on passenger car styling and used in the funeral, rescue or livery services. Such vehicles may be hearses, flower cars, service cars, ambulances, limousines, or cars which are specially built to combine two or more of these functions, such as combination hearse-ambulances, sedan ambulances, or invalid coaches."

loosely defined? may be..? open to interpitation . me, hearse, limo, ambulance. but I see the dilemma some might have. that is if you want to question the definition which states loosely defined as....
 
a pro car is anything you want it to be. a pro car for proposes of the professional car society is as defined.
 
Back
Top