Hearse owners on the rise?

[Attila Bethlenfalvy]

I agree a VINTAGE casket may be a part of funeral history, but that's not what the PCS is about. Its about the cars. Its the Professional CAR Society, not the Professional Funeral History Society.

If a casket/coffin/Ziegler is period correct to the coach, then it enhances - just as a church truck in its compartment, mounted funeral flag, one man cot/gurney in a combination or ambulance, or any number of items that would have been used in an ambulance (suction cylinder, oxygen tanks, resuscitator, defibrillator, backboards, oxygen meters, folding cots, stair chairs, scoop stretchers, restraints, cervical collars, splints, traction devices, radio gear, extra linens, spit pans, urinals, sand bags, medical supplies, etc.) Also consider that vintage funeral parking sings are displayed with regularity. Or a beautiful handmade Victorian coffin in the back of a horse drawn. None of these items came with the coach John. The reason you were given I feel was pure hogwash.

All of these items are in fact one in the same yet for bizarre reasons are weighted differently. Acceptance of an ambulance being displayed decked out with accessories but not a hearse is transparent hypocrisy. Yes, I understand the public's perception of caskets/coffins fully. No, I don't drive around with one. (My teens National Casket Co rail box in Flint had a purpose and doesn't count! ) Doesn't mean there isn't a tactful way to have a stock period casket/coffin which remains closed in the back of a vehicle at a show where it isn't on 'display' front and center.

Take this analogy:

In the US, women have the right to choose what happens with their body after conception to a certain point where legally an embryo crosses into being considered a baby. Yet before that point, if you're responsible for the death of that woman, you'll take not one but two homicide charges.

This is precisely how I've always viewed PCS' casket rule. This duplicity simply should not exist in principle - without so much as taking/stating sides. Yet it does. Ambulance but not hearse. Redundantly got it.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

church truck yes casket or coffin no. the reason we say s is that the box is not part of the car but owned by the family of the person that is in it. you could buy the ambulance with all the necessary equipment in it from the manufacture you never bought a Hearse with a coffin it in.

so displayed at a PCS function the car is empty. no one cares if you have one we'll help you carry it up to your room before placing the car on the show field. help you get those skull knobs off it many be cover up the up urnx plates to. we have done it before and will again. because it's about the cars not the decorations .

 

[Jeremy Moberg]

I highly agree with Attila. Very good point on the casket issue! Unfortunately, things are not gonna change with that rule for a very long time because there are too many PCS people that are against caskets on display. I still respect the rule and leave mine at home when attending PCS functions. I've heard both arguments plenty of time in the past. Only time I've ever seen people get upset over caskets on display at local shows are when you display a childs casket. The adult size ones don't seem to bother many people. Only people it bugs are the people that are already uneasy around a hearse. I personally like having the casket in my car especially at car shows ( for the few I attend ) because it makes excellent storage. There is a ton of room in a hearse but not much hidden storage. Toss the lawn chairs and a lunch box in it. It's great! Then you don't even see the clutter.

 

[Attila Bethlenfalvy]

Ed, it appears the concept presented went far over your head. I respectfully suggest that perhaps you aren't the best fit to "argue" PCS' rule standpoint. Bringing up 'skull knobs' enforces this when they in fact have no bearing in the equation.

How does it matter what came with a coach..? It does not. Intended purpose is intended purpose. Why arbitrarily state a church truck is okay when not offered nor made by a coach manufacturer then? And for that matter, there were a few furniture companies that progressed into making coffins and coaches themselves. So technically speaking, one could have purchased both a coffin and coach from same manufacturer at same time.

By your philosophy, adding decorations to an ambulance is acceptable - even if not included by the manufacturer. That's right, decorations. Your term, not mine. For some reason in your head hearse accessories are decorations but medical equipment in an ambulance are not decorations, which is ludicrous. Let's revisit usage for moment. Caskets are temporarily used in coaches the same as sheets, blankets, and pillows are temporarily used in an ambulance. Each passes through and is not a permanent fixture. Catching on yet..?

If it's about the cars and not the decorations as claimed, then ambulances and combinations should likewise be displayed empty. There is no discernible distinction between the two. I am not advocating casket rule be changed, merely pointing out the laughable logic that has been passed off behind having it. When the club started, was a casket rule of more importance then do to public acceptance/sensitivity? Yes. Has public increasingly become more comfortable seeing our coaches over the last three decades? Yes. Do baby/child caskets/coffins still make people more uneasy than full size? Yes. Should firmly rooted PCS preservation and restoration foundation also extend to education and help cease casket/coffin stigmas as it has for the coaches themselves? _____

 

[Rick Franklin]

Attila, since you are NOT a dues paying PCS member, and have stated before that you will never be, you have a lot of nerve coming into our house and tell us what rules we enforce in our organization. Perhaps you would be happier hanging out with some other hearse clubs.

 

[Darryl Thompson]

Attila, since you are NOT a dues paying PCS member, and have stated before that you will never be, you have a lot of nerve coming into our house and tell us what rules we enforce in our organization. Perhaps you would be happier hanging out with some other hearse clubs.

Great way to answer this. Exactly the same logic that prohibits new growth. Petty and more should be expected from a chapter president. Dues or not, no one should be chastised over "dues" in lieu of opinion in our public forums. Opinionated discussion is always welcomed, but a off topic low blow is rude.

The "Thanks" below your post will definitely affect my vote concerning the nominee listed. One should tread lightly before elections. ~Some advice

Yes I am a current member and this is just "MY opinion".

 

[Patrick J. Martin]

Vote however you like, that is the point to elections. And the thing about opinions is that for each person who doesn't agree, there is someone who does. Opinions about the management and policies of this club coming from both a nonmember and someone who has made it clear they will never be a member are not opinions I am concerned with personally.

 

[Darryl Thompson]

Vote however you like, that is the point to elections. And the thing about opinions is that for each person who doesn't agree, there is someone who does. Opinions about the management and policies of this club coming from both a nonmember and someone who has made it clear they will never be a member are not opinions I am concerned with personally.

You have a good point and I will. However, it sounds as if you are not willing to seek a medium to work on new member growth or the plain fact of embracing those that have knowledge that is pertinent or of help to ALL of us. Sustainability should be a major play point in wanting to be a president, winning those that "may not be members" now and in the future. Why? simply because we are ALL getting older by the minute, minds change and without any base of making new members, We. Will. Die.

The person you reference in your reply is only "1", I have personally met 15 plus other professional car owners that have based their "not wanting to be a member" on your simple ideology "Opinions about the management and policies of this club coming from both a nonmember and someone who has made it clear they will never be a member are not opinions I am concerned with personally." It is sad that this is a an atypical mindset of only a very few in this club. You and those few make us look like complete jerks from the outside of the PCS.

To use the word "personally" in your current status of candidacy does reflect potential policies upon a winning election in your favor. Nothing about a national club should be "personally", it should be about the greater good for ALL.

Cliques are overrated and downing "non-members" don't make sustainable specialty clubs. Remember that.

 

[Patrick J. Martin]

There is a difference between a nonmember who is a potential member, and a nonmember who has stated they will never be a member. I'm more than willing to talk with someone who is a potential member, and in fact do so at every car show I attend, which is literally dozens throughout the year.

I single handedly brought in eight new members last year during my planning for the Milwaukee meet. Those people were in agreement with PCS policies and were glad to discover that a club of our standards existed. Someone who has repeatedly stated they will never be a member is, frankly, a lost cause for club membership, and I'll return to expressing interest in a potential member who expresses interest in the club.

Last year, the Professional Car Society received the recognition for our vehicles that we've been working towards for 37 years. Last year, our club was on the showfield of an invitational concours. And yes, I will take part of the credit for making that happen. But most of the credit belongs to the standards that this club has and enforces. Those standards are what has made the PCS star rise for almost four decades now. No, neither as president nor in any other capacity, am I willing to sacrifice those standards just for the sake of hoping to add a few more dollars into the treasury.

 

[John Royark JR]

Atti, still, a casket is owned by the customer, and only in there for a short time to be transported. The things in an ambulance are how the car is equipped. There are rules for them too, like no mannequins or things like that.
As I mentioned I used to have the caskets and always wondered why we couldn't display them too. All I said was the way someone finally described it to me that it clicked and made complete sense, for me it was not hogwash at all. I also said I have caskets, and have them in my coaches sometimes, in the past I never left the house without one. But personally, the more I leave them out the more I get to see the beautiful interior that the casket often hides, which goes back to the craftsmanship of the car.
Some people will never understand the no casket rule or why the PCS was all about stock coaches (I didn't for a long time), but the older I get and the more Ive gotten into the cars over the years I understand it completely. I still have a modified coach, I will be the first to admit that, but I prefer stock ones more and more every day I wake up.
There are many other clubs out there for caskets and ghouled up cars that cleared out the Halloween isle at Walmart. That's great for the people that like that stuff. That's why it is great to have a choice for people that do not want that.
The PCS was never meant to be a club for everyone.
I agree with Eds post, he gets my point.

 

[Jeremy Moberg]

The fact is, Attila has some real legit points! You can't get more spot on than that! Sometimes an opinion from a non member can point you in the right direction. You can see your downfalls by seeing things in a different perspective. Basically by a more detailed "why don't they want to join?". Doesn't mean that you necessarily have to change for anyone else but it's nice to see where others come from. By ignoring the world, you're prone to failure.

 

[Darryl Thompson]

There is a difference between a nonmember who is a potential member, and a nonmember who has stated they will never be a member. I'm more than willing to talk with someone who is a potential member, and in fact do so at every car show I attend, which is literally dozens throughout the year.

At no time is it appropriate to down or outcast any single person that is willing to contribute to our society knowledge or resources. No matter if they are a dues paying member or just site member. It leaves a poor representation of the larger mass known as ALL of us "PCS members".

I single handedly brought in eight new members last year during my planning for the Milwaukee meet. Those people were in agreement with PCS policies and were glad to discover that a club of our standards existed. Someone who has repeatedly stated they will never be a member is, frankly, a lost cause for club membership, and I'll return to expressing interest in a potential member who expresses interest in the club.

Last year, the Professional Car Society received the recognition for our vehicles that we've been working towards for 37 years. Last year, our club was on the showfield of an invitational concours. And yes, I will take part of the credit for making that happen. But most of the credit belongs to the standards that this club has and enforces. Those standards are what has made the PCS star rise for almost four decades now. No, neither as president nor in any other capacity, am I willing to sacrifice those standards just for the sake of hoping to add a few more dollars into the treasury.

I am not knocking your ability to pull off a stellar show and get "8" new members from such a large endeavour. The hosting of a great International meet is very commendable. However, the running of a National club is whole different ball of wax.

Representation of the club in entirety as a "friendly" and "open" environment goes a long way no matter if the person pays to play or not. With that said, it does not matter about the "treasury", we are more than wealthy in knowledge of the hobby that we love. It not appropriate to shun someone just because they refuse to pay for our magazine. If a person has a wealth of knowledge and freely contributes, they are worth more to our club than truckloads of greenbacks.

I am not backing a single person in the last paragraph, I am backing several. We should not count our chickens on just one event, counting should be started from membership day 1.

What may be good for the goose is not always good for the gander in a pond of Antifreeze.

 

[Darryl Thompson]

The fact is, Attila has some real legit points! You can't get more spot on than that! Sometimes an opinion from a non member can point you in the right direction. You can see your downfalls by seeing things in a different perspective. Basically by a more detailed "why don't they want to join?". Doesn't mean that you necessarily have to change for anyone else but it's nice to see where others come from. By ignoring the world, you're prone to failure.

Well said.

It's not just Attila, there are many more that share the same sentiments but refuse to speak on it because this ^^^ happens.

 

[Peter Grave - Deceased - 1938 - 2022]

I don't wish to become embroiled in this debate. I would however like to point out that I have been around since the beginning when I received a phone call from Dwight Heinmuller "Would you be interested in Joining a club for hearses and ambulances?" This was prompted by AACA refusing his 48 Henney PACKARD admission to the Hershey show field. It was going to be a tough road to get hearses admitted and having a casket present would have made the task more formidable. Remember the 70s were a lot more conservative than today. I do not remember other than Halloween any goth type things in that era granted I am a lot older now so some things that were not of interest to me may have been forgotten. Until recently my own Pro Cars were only Limos and Ambulances I was not a Hearse fan. The recent addition of the 96 Masterpiece changed that. In fact it carried a casket for the recent movie shoot. Times have changed since the clubs inception and the public is far more accepting of Hearses with or without caskets so perhaps this issue needs addressing. My thoughts would be add it to part of the ballot in the up coming election and the majority rules. The Membership can decide.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

the thought of the club is now it's about the cars. there are no displays with the exception of flower displays on flower cars. ambulances are equipped or not. but the equipment is not displayed. there are no points added or subtracted either way. the casket is not a part of the car but a display. simple as that. a man that would refuse to come by and see what we are about, only here that he could not display his equipment is not vary series on joining the club anyway. come show day we all Have helped carry displays up to the hotel room. no one cares what you do the other 364 day your not at a PCS fiction. not a lot to ask of a person. one afternoon.

 

[Kurt Arends]

Ed,
Are you saying that we DO currently allow for flowers to be displayed on flower cars? The coach manufacturers never sold flower cars with flowers. The flowers belong to the family of the deceased......... or did I misunderstand you?

 

[Mark Novak]

When I first started attending PCS events, I also asked why caskets weren't allowed, but ambulances could display all their accessories. I was told because you could buy an ambulance fully equipped, but you did not buy a hearse with a casket included. Makes sense to me.

And while I love Halloween, and don't mind seeing decorations in October as long as they do not damage the car, they seem ridiculous when the car is still being displayed with them in January or June.

We had, I believe, over 70 cars at the Milwaukee Concours last year during the International Meet. They stated that they had actually wanted to include some hearses in their show for a few years, but did not know how to go about it without getting all of the ghoulish Halloween displays and caskets that they usually saw with the cars. Our club was actually welcomed by them when Patrick told them PCS does not allow that, and our cars were displayed next to Ferraris, Aston Martins, Rolls Royces, Duesenbergs, and CCCA Full Classics, and we have been invited back again next year. Although we had to explain to them that we would not be able to provide anywhere near that amount of cars every year.

On the other hand, there is a local hearse club here that not only allows but encourages Halloween displays and caskets. For a few years, they displayed at a local cruise night that just happened to have a small cemetery on the street. They went all out for their displays. Due to the number of complaints about the caskets and decorations, they have now been banned from displaying their cars there.

So which club would you rather be a member of? One that cannot display their cars at a local cruise night where even the tackiest, worst quality homemade customs are allowed, or one that has actually been invited back to a prestigious concours event to display next to Duesenbergs and Ferraris?

And, if you really want to display caskets and Halloween decorations, I really don't understand why someone wouldn't just join one of the many clubs that focus on that instead of trying to change the one club that is for the stock preservation of the cars.

 

[Jeremy Moberg]

When I joined PCS like 10+ years ago. I hated the rule against ghoulish display. It sounded really silly. I just didn't really care for the fact that PCS could dictate the way I present my car. Not that I did that stuff myself besides carrying a casket. Nothing against Halloween. But the more I've attended different hearse club events, you really see what sets PCS apart from the rest. And I always thought, where do you draw the line. Then I soon discovered after being at tons of PCS events, there is no rule banning modifieds which is great. There is a lot of confusion with that in the hearse community outside PCS. It's basically that they just don't want their events to be a Halloween party. I think it would be irritating going to a car show full of people in costumes and cheap Halloween decorations. You have to admit, PCS is a different crowd because of that rule which is great. Once thats changed, it's gonna be a different group. Its not for everyone and so be it. Only thing that still bothers me it the no casket rule. I'll still abide by their rules and leave it at home but most arguments I've heard really sound dumb. I think it can look tasteful. Nothing ghoulish about that. There are even funeral directors I know that display caskets in their vintage coaches at regular car shows and they don't get shunned. The pro-Car Society vs. Funeral History Society doesn't quite make sense because I thought PCS was about the cars history and funeral history is a part of it. We may as well ignore the medical rescue side of things as well. Keep ambulances as they came from the factory, not with supplies their customers stocked them with. No more ambulance dispatch station and funeral home tours. Doesn't have to do with the cars history? May as well be the same in that mind set. Allowing caskets isn't gonna turn this club into a Halloween club.

 

[John Eder]

My Two Cents...

I am a newcomer to the PCS, so I am more of an observer, and don’t know the background of what appears to be a long-standing controversy over club rules. I will say that the PCS is, in my view, a premier organization, having previously been or currently being a member of other vehicle-related groups. The level of professionalism and depth of knowledge is truly impressive and refreshing. It is sad to see this amount of energy and goodwill being squandered over what appears, to me, to be trivial issues. The pitting of members against one another and the conduct of “one-upsmanship” detracts from what I believed to be our common interest in preserving these unique vehicles.

I use the term vehicles because I joined the Professional Car Society. I agree with those who feel that modified cars should not be mixed with those that reflect historical accuracy. I see the PCS as a kind of “rolling museum”, keeping alive what are increasingly artifacts from our past- custom built, handcrafted vehicles. Is it important that future generations see the significance of these cars after we are all gone?

I agree with the opposition to skulls, flames, Satan murals, etc. Again, for me, the focus is the cars. The inclusion of funeral industry equipment and supplies seems equally out of place in the PCS. This is just my opinion.

Likewise, I agree on the position that caskets are inappropriate for club displays (which I have not as yet participated in). I have two former military ambulances. How appropriate would it be for me to display the item shown below, or perhaps an occupied-appearing body bag in the rear compartment of either of my vehicles?

As a veteran, I would find either scenario disturbing, disrespectful and distasteful, yet is it really any different?

 

[Mike Boyer]

I agree with John.
The only reason I joined the PCS was the fact that they did NOT allow custom or modified Professional Cars in the club. when I first bought my Eureka I check out other clubs on the web and found a few but I wasn't comfortable with what they stood for. I for one find it very disrepectful and distasteful when I see a Coach with flames, skulls, etc. on or in it. and that includes a casket. I think having a casket in the back takes away from the car no one will look at the car ......just the casket in the back. Everyone knows what a casket looks like ! when I show my Coach people will walk up and sure some will ask where's the casket is ? and laugh and walk away but most will look in the back and say WOW that looks so Beauitful I had no idea it looked that way and most thank me and either will ask more questions or walk away.

Yes I do own a casket ( 1940's child casket) but Its on display in my home along with other Funeral and Ambulance items.

My Coach is treated with respect its always clean and looks good, I rarely call my Eureka a "HEARSE" to me, its a FUNERAL COACH the way I look at it is my Coach is kind of a memorial to those who had their last ride in it.

Its called having RESPECT
alot of people seem to have lost that in the last 20 years or so

The Ambulance issue to me is a bit different...... when I look at a "service Vehicle" at a show I would like to see what it was like back in the day. take my 78 Chevy Horton Type lll I plan on showing it and I plan on having a few things in the back Stretcher, first Aid box, blankets just enough so that when someone looks in the back they can get a feel of what it was like back in 1978. Having a Casket in the back of my Funeral Coach is NOT the same Two very different things

so thats the reason I joined the PROFESSIONAL CAR SOCIETY........its a RESPECTFUL CAR CLUB

there are alot of other "HEARSE" clubs out there but there is only ONE professional Car Society.