Future of the Funeral Business

Hmmm... I know I am probably going to ruffle more than a few feathers here, but, this is my opinion...

As Danny said... "...I have seen a drastic change in how society is treating death even in the rural area that we serve. This is of great concern to me. Even if people choose cremation, for example, as the choice for final disposition they still need to have a service of some kind to mark this VERY important event..."

I have to ask, Why is this a "Very important event"? Why is it important when people die? It is another person that has passed and another person that is no longer with us. Why is it a "Very important event" when someone passes?

Rocky, Why is it a problem when...
People dress more casual?
Fewer flowers are sent?
Shorter and earlier visitations are taking place?
When there are "more personalized caskets , urns, memorial folders etc."

I just don't understand it that anyone would make such a fuss about someone passing. I do agree that the original photo is a bit much, but why the really big deal about death? Grandma has died. She has moved on and is watching us spend thousands and making asses out of ourselves "honoring" her.

When a person dies, what is left is just a shell... just a reminder of who they were. Their "spirit". "soul" or whatever you want to call it has moved on. Grandma is no longer there! Get over it and move on!
 
For some reason our society has decided that if a few people do something different then it should be the norm. I don't quite understand when or why exactly this change took place. Could someone please enlighten me. I for one believe that death is something that should be handled in a dignified and professional manner. If you can not take the time out of your busy schedule to get a sitter, send some flowers, dress nice, and be punctual then I'm sorry please don't bother to attend a service as it appears you really didn't have the respect that you are wanting to pay anyway. In our fast pace society we need to slow down and teach our young people to respect those that have passed. If we fail to show that respect then why should young people strive to do the best that they can?:my2cents:
 
Charles E Snyder said:
Hmmm... I know I am probably going to ruffle more than a few feathers here, but, this is my opinion...

As Danny said... "...I have seen a drastic change in how society is treating death even in the rural area that we serve. This is of great concern to me. Even if people choose cremation, for example, as the choice for final disposition they still need to have a service of some kind to mark this VERY important event..."

I have to ask, Why is this a "Very important event"? Why is it important when people die? It is another person that has passed and another person that is no longer with us. Why is it a "Very important event" when someone passes?

Rocky, Why is it a problem when...
People dress more casual?
Fewer flowers are sent?
Shorter and earlier visitations are taking place?
When there are "more personalized caskets , urns, memorial folders etc."

I just don't understand it that anyone would make such a fuss about someone passing. I do agree that the original photo is a bit much, but why the really big deal about death? Grandma has died. She has moved on and is watching us spend thousands and making asses out of ourselves "honoring" her.

When a person dies, what is left is just a shell... just a reminder of who they were. Their "spirit". "soul" or whatever you want to call it has moved on. Grandma is no longer there! Get over it and move on!
Click to expand...

I agree with you somewhat.
At our family funerals, and many friends, we all dress as the person knew us when they were alive. I do dress nicer than my everyday dress, but never have I wore a monkey suit. Also some people cannot afford to buy dress clothes they are only going to wear once, food and meds come first.
I also do not get why people spend so much money on flowers, they will just die in a few days (also the reason I never buy my girlfriend any), and why would you spend thousands on a casket that will just go in the ground anyway, when a pine box will do the same. My mom always said just throw her in a hefty bag and haul her to the dump.
Not everyone has$10,000 + to spend on a funeral, alot of people are living paycheck to paycheck and still going in the hole.

As far as the service goes there are many more people nowdays that religion dosent matter as much or at all, and that is their right. Why hire a preacher if the deceased or family does not believe in what they are saying anyway.

Dont get me wrong, I do think there needs to be dignity in funerals, but times change and so do traditions.
 
I have been to a number of the celebrations of life. find them a lot better then the "traditional funeral" as the society we live in know it. this of course does not reflect othere societies way to handling the departed. I will agree if you can't clean up a little and show up on time acting at least some what respectable then don't come at all. but some sort of service is nessary. it's up to those of you in the busness to adjust if you want to stay in busness.
 
I just can't let this one go by without saying something as we said goodbye to my mother this week.

Mom had cancer. It lead to a 100-pound weight loss, and other complications including malnutrition, anemia, and postural hypotension resulting in fainting with one episode causing a hip fracture. As with so many of our seniors, the hip fracture really started the downward spiral with nursing home admission for rehab, then 24-hour personal care assistants at home, then a final hospitalization and admission to hospice. I cannot say enough good things about the hospice experience. They helped her and the rest of us prepare for her death. Her death was a serene and graceful experience. Pain free and with dignity.

She started to prepare us over a year ago by talking about her final wishes. She sat my sister, brother and I down and went over what her expectations were. In relation to the death arrangements, she wanted to be cremated. She wanted a visitation at a funeral home for neighbors, friends, co-workers, and family. Though she had religious values and beliefs, she did not want a formal church or funeral home funeral service. She preferred a private gathering of the immediate family. So we are honoring her wishes.

My father preceded her in death by several years. One of the things that were very special to the both of them was their lake home in northern Minnesota. My parents together purchased a very nice marble bench that sits down near the water at their home. There are two hollow spaces inside this bench for their ashes. Dad has been there for several years. That’s where mom will be.

The funeral home took care of all the details. They even provided a room in the back for us to use as a retreat from time to time during the visitation. We were encouraged to bring in food and treats for us and the children. There was also a place for the children to play and “just be kids” away from the visitation area so as to not cause any disruption.

As for dress and decorum, all of us wore business casual type of clothing. The family is made up of nurses, teachers, cops, firefighters, gardeners, automobile leasing agents, corporate merchandise buyers, and students. Only one of us typically wears a tie to work on a regular basis. All very middle class and middle of the road in political views. As for the visitors, it was a generational thing. The older folks were in very nice clothes, suits and ties. Those that were our age and younger were in business casual type of attire. I would view it all as appropriate attire for the event.

I don’t like Twitter or Facebook very much, but it is here and firmly entrenched in modern society so I have accepted it. Perhaps the traditional funeral is changing with society as well? Without meaning to sound glib, isn’t it ultimately up to the customer? As with many changes in society, perhaps there is a “new normal” evolving for funerals.
 
Charles E Snyder said:
Hmmm... I know I am probably going to ruffle more than a few feathers here, but, this is my opinion...

As Danny said... "...I have seen a drastic change in how society is treating death even in the rural area that we serve. This is of great concern to me. Even if people choose cremation, for example, as the choice for final disposition they still need to have a service of some kind to mark this VERY important event..."

I have to ask, Why is this a "Very important event"? Why is it important when people die? It is another person that has passed and another person that is no longer with us. Why is it a "Very important event" when someone passes?

Rocky, Why is it a problem when...
People dress more casual?
Fewer flowers are sent?
Shorter and earlier visitations are taking place?
When there are "more personalized caskets , urns, memorial folders etc."

I just don't understand it that anyone would make such a fuss about someone passing. I do agree that the original photo is a bit much, but why the really big deal about death? Grandma has died. She has moved on and is watching us spend thousands and making asses out of ourselves "honoring" her.

When a person dies, what is left is just a shell... just a reminder of who they were. Their "spirit". "soul" or whatever you want to call it has moved on. Grandma is no longer there! Get over it and move on!
Click to expand...

*the important event is a death has occured, someone isn't coming back. No phone calls, no responsibilities, no more sandwiches. No one is out to convince you if you don't care...
*wasn't sure Rocky said any of those issues were a "problem".. he said these were his observations...
*everyone treats death differently, the same way we treat relationships, family or friends differently. If you want to know why a fuss is being made, it could be because a favorite person left in an important generation is dead, it could be because some 16 year old made a bad decision and wrapped around a car around a phone pole - try telling the bereaved parents of that kid "to get over and move on..."
*In one of Thomas Lynch's books, he says he saw a deacon almost get decked by a mother who's daughter had died in her 20's. The deacon walked up and told the mother (as she was viewing her daughter) "It's just a shell..." and Thomas said the mother whirled around and said, "No! she's a shell when I say she is, right now she is my daughter!"... which reminds us all people handle grief differently, and should be treated as such...
No ruffled feathers here... just an observation or two...
 
Reply to Charles

Hmmm.

Rocky, Why is it a problem when...
People dress more casual?
Fewer flowers are sent?
Shorter and earlier visitations are taking place?
When there are "more personalized caskets , urns, memorial folders etc."

Charles, perhaps you missed some part of my post, no where did I say I had a "Problem" with this. I said it was my "Observation". I will revisit each of the four items to hopefully clarify any question.
1. I'm ok with casual atire, a person should wear what they are most comfortable in. A side note here, we now make removals in kakki pants and a pull over sport shirt, ten years ago we wore suits on all and I mean ALL removals. In day-to-day operations I wear casual too. I have a suit ready at all time in case the need arises. In fact another observation is that some clients feel we are more aproachable in casual atire. We are in a small southern town with good hard working and down to earth folk, not much "fru- fru and put on" here.
2. Fewer flowers are sent because people elect to make contributions and memorials. Whether a family receives 6 floral pieces or 26 we will see that they are cared for with the same care. I have not had one small spray delivered here in 4 years, a few standing pieces and a few baskets are the normal.
3. Shorter visitation are good with me, I'm here to help people, if they want shorter or earler visitations thats what we'll have.
4. Personalization, again no problem, if I provide what my client family wants then most likely they will call me again when they have a need.
 
While my initial reaction to first reading Chuck Snyder's post was to groan it, I am not going to do so because I do believe that he is entitled to his opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. But that doesn't mean we have to agree.

I agree with what has been said earlier in this post about services becoming more personalized. I have also witnessed more unique caskets, more unique services, and momentos and memorabilia on display in the funeral chapel, and I think that part of modern services are a great thing.

But this is still a highly traditionalized proceeding, and due respect is to be expected. Arriving in shorts is not acceptable. Allowing your kids to run around undisciplined is not acceptable. Yakking on your cell phone in the parlor is not acceptable. The problem with allowing casual dress is that many people seem to think "casual dress" means "look like a bum".

The tenth anniversary of the passing of who had been my last living grandparent is literally just days away. This was a woman who was special to me, and fortunately I realized that while she was still alive. Have I gotten over her? Well in terms of am I able to go about my life normally and not think about her everyday, yes, of course, I have been for years. But have I gotten over her in terms of I don't think of her at all, in terms of I don't still miss her at times, in terms of sometimes I wish I could stop by her house and have a talk, then no, definitely not, and I don't think I ever will. If someone had told me ten years ago "grandma is gone, get over it", I think they would have ended up with a fist in their nose.

I absolutely agree with the idea of funerals are for the living, not the deceased. Showing up at a service and exhibiting inappropriate dress or behavior is an indication of the type of person YOU are.

During the last couple years of my grandmother's life, she had voluntarily stopped driving, and as her health declined, became someone who wished to just stay home even if someone else did the driving. Her widowed and retired sister-in-law became the person who picked up her groceries, her medicines, and basic errands. At the funeral, she actually had the nerve to say "that's a big problem out of my life." While she may have genuinely thought that, there are some things you just don't say. Upon hearing that, I just wanted to walk over and smack her across the face. But I didn't, because there are also some things you just don't do.

My mother has two brothers, both of whom are single with no children. Earlier this year, they called my mom to let her know that they had written their wills, that she was put in charge of handling their affairs, and what their wishes were. My mom was almost a basket case when that phone call ended. Part of it, of course, was the thought of losing her brothers. But a bigger part was what their wishes are. Neither one of them wants anything. No service, no memorial, no eulogy, no obituary, nothing. They both just want to be cremated and scattered, that's it.

This had my mom in tears because its not what she ever thought for them. My mom wants a proper service so she can say goodbye, she wants a grave to visit and place flowers on, she wants a headstone she can kneel down next to. I have told her that if she's in charge of their final arrangements, she can do what she feels is appropriate. She said she knows that, but doesn't know if she could go against what she knows their wishes are.

So considering that funerals are really for the living left behind, what is the better course of action? Following their very minimalist wishes, or giving them a service that would allow my mom to mourn and grieve properly? I honestly don't know, and even more honestly, I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. But I do know this, if someone tells her to just get over it, there will very likely be an ambulance at the funeral home in addition to the hearse.
 
people are loosing their traditional values re:funerals

i have noticed a sharp rise in non traditional funerals over
the last few years. I feel that when you visit a friend whom
has passed away that you should at least wear decent chlothes.

we buired my sister in law in july.people came to the funeral
home for the viewing wearing shorts, jeans,sandals and other than
what i think is acceptable.

many folks think that this is acceptable.personally,i wear at least
a dress shirt and slacks. if you have been asked to be a pallbearer,
or to do a reading at a service then you wear a suit and tie.

this to me is just plain good manners,and a showing of respect for
the deceased,and their family!!!!:myopinion:
 
My thoughts

As a retired funeral director, I have to weigh in on this. When I entered funeral service as a second career over 20 years ago, the majority of the families that we served requested a traditional service with viewing and burial. Family and friends of the deceased expected to confront the painful reality and finality of death by viewing the deceased, saying their goodbyes, and sitting through a (usually religious) ceremony. When I left the profession 4 years ago, an increasing percentage of families wanted a 45 minute arrangement conference, ("can't we do this over the phone?"), passed you a credit card, and you would have to call them constantly to remind them that their "loved one's" cremated remains were still waiting to be picked up. The priorities in the ME generation have now changed to where, if they do have a ceremony, they just want to be entertained (with videos and powerpoint presentations) and fed, and be out the door in time for their kid's soccer game that evening, or maybe get the oil changed in the car on the way home. All, of course, for a price to compete with the store-front discounter down the street.

After being retired for a year, and spending way too much time on the computer every day, a vendor that I used to deal with called me up and asked me if I would be interested in delivering caskets part time fhroughout the State. Looking for something to do, I took advantage of this opportunity, and enjoyed it for 3 years before retiring for good back in April. As I traveled to all 4 corners of the State on my deliveries, I spoke with dozens of funeral directors and funeral home owners. With few exceptions, most were not optimistic about the future of their profession, and more than one said they would trade jobs with me in a hearbeat. During the period that I was making these deliveries, I also noted a steady decline in the caliber of the merchandise that the customers were ordering.

So, like everything else in life, funeral service has to evolve for the convenience of the customer they are serving. Someone will always have to pick up a body, get a death certificate signed and filed, and dispose of the body in some fashion. My guess is that the future of this industry will be based on that basic necessity, and not much more. I certainly wouldn't want to be a twenty-something year old graduating from mortuary college right now.

P.S. Don't even get me started on out of control kids at funerals, cell phones and attire.
 
I recall working a Funeral Service a couple years ago, where not one single person in the family made an atempt to dress up for the service, they all had on T shirts, and blue jeans and such. Now I understand if someone cant aford nice clothes, but you cant tell me that they couldn't have found something a little more respectful to ware. Half of them came in late, half of them it was very obvious they had ben drinking before they got there by the way they were acting, and from the smell of liquor as they walked by. Every time we would play a song, they would start talking with each other and cuting up with each other. When the preacher was doing his sermon, you could hear them whispering to each other. I wanted so bad at this point to stand up and stop the preacher and tell these disrespectful idiots what I thought. At the end of the service I took the pall-bearers out to the hearse, i tryed to tell them how to line up, but instead they didn't want to listen to anything I had to say, and stood around in a group punching each other in the arm, laughing, and acting like a bunch of kids. I even heard one of them say, hurry up and role her out here so we can shove her in here and hit the road. Finaly one of them turned around and walked up to me and said what is it your wanting us to do? At this point I had had just about enough, and I said without thinking, I want you and your boys to shut up and stop acting like a bunch of delinquent kids, and show a little respect. I know I probly shouldn't have said that, but it worked, he turned around and told them to listen to what I had to say, and they did. When we got to the cemetery, they all seemed like they were finaly calming down. Until, it was time to lower the casket. Half of them lit them a cigarette, and found them a head stone to stand up on, and said aw man I got to see this. What ever happened to good old fashion respect! I may be a little old fashioned myself, but there are places and times where a lady should act like a lady, and a gentelman should act like a gentelman, and show some respect. And a Funeral sure as hell is one of those times and places.

Josh
 
I have read all of the comments before and after my post. My intention was not to upset anyone. I was just stating my feelings and my beliefs. None of us are wrong. As someone else already stated, we are all entitled to our opinions and there is nothing that says we have to agree. Unfortunately, what has been said is already out there and I can't take it back. I stand by my comment, I just think I could have said it better.

-In this day and age, more people are becoming more concerned about what they are spending their money on. These are tough times. I just read an article about how a lot of local municipalities are seeing an increase in government funded funerals and burials. So many people just don't have the money to invest in any type of funeral let along a fancy one.

-As for flowers, I like to see fewer and fewer flowers at funerals. It shows that people realize that even though they look good, they are just going to go to waste after the ceremony. I would rather see a donation made or a card sent. I don't know that I ever really understood the tradition of sending flowers. Just my opinion there.

-I disagree with most of the comments about attire. If the deceased has only ever seen me in jeans, why would they want me to try and be someone that I am not by dressing up. I do not agree with wearing shorts and a T-shirt, but in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a nice pair of jeans and a nice shirt.

-The last comment I posted about grandma being gone was out of line. There are so many ways that I could have said that differently. I was on a rant and I posted exactly what was on my mind before thinking about how it sounded. I truly believe that once a person has died, they are no longer there in that body. Regardless of a person's religious beliefs, the spirit of the deceased has already gone on to another place. My opinion only.

I think what got me going on the rant was that it seems that people in general don't want to see change. To me, it seems that a lot of people want to live yesterday and not move into the future. The cultural, spiritual and ethnic make up of the United States has changed so much over the past 100 years. That is one thing that I like about the United States is that we have such a rich heritage that is changing every day. Not all people put the same emphasis on death. For the most part, the United States has been a Christian society and therefore, the mainstream idea of a funeral has been the same. When the makeup of society changes, the industries that serve that culture have to change. Either change or eventually succumb to the change by losing business. There will always be someone that is willing to change and have their business take up where you left off.

I will step down now and quit my rant. I realize that it wasn't the correct way to say what I wanted to and I hope I didn't offend anyone too much.
 
Sometime in the not too distant future, my family will be dealing with the funeral of my father. Any attempts to ask HIM what he wants is met with "Oh dont worry about that now. im not dying". I do know that he wants to be buried in the local veterans cemetary. he wants a simple pine casket and as a WW II veteran, a flag on the casket. As a practising Roman Catholic, Im sure we will have a rosary service the night before the funeral at the funeral home and a traditional Catholic funeral mass , followed by a procession to the cemetary. When discussing which firm to use, I informed my step-mom that the firm her family has always used is now under ownership by a large corporate giant and I wasnt comfortable using them, she told me that since I know people in the business that I was in charge of selecting the Funeral Home. I will go with a family owned firm with a very traditionallooking facility much like the one my dad selected when we buried my real mom back in NY. My dad is a very traditional man, so I think he would approve. And if I am up to it emotionally, I plan on using my Lincoln hearse to transport him. The Funeral director I am choosing actually suggested this too!Hopefully, this all wont occur soon, but at age 91 & in his current condition, I know it is coming sooner rather than later.
 
Just my opinion here, but to me, putting on a suit and tie, or at the least a casual shirt and slacks, is just a matter of respect. As far as change, I am a very traditional person, aspecialy when it comes to Funeral Service, but change is inevitable, and there is nothing we can do to stop it, and its just something we have to accept in life. But that doesn't mean that we cant still show respect. Respect is something that people are showing less and less of now days, and that right there is something that deffinently needs to chage.:myopinion::my2cents:

Josh
 
Josh Gentry said:
J But that doesn't mean that we cant still show respect. Respect is something that people are showing less and less of now days, and that right there is something that deffinently needs to chage.:myopinion::my2cents:

Josh
Click to expand...

I'll go along with that statement. its now how you are dressed it's how you act that counts
 
Certainly has been an interesting thread and appreciate everyone's comments. I also appreciate the respect shown by all on various positions even though they vary. Those who have been in or still active in the funeral business understand why we do what we do and dissppointed in the direction we see it headed. Those who have not been in the business as with most outsiders, only see money and costs. To me it's not the costs that matter but the service rendored. I have seen over and over families who are just "WOW'd" when they see their family member and so pleased they decided to do a viewing/visitation. That's why I love this business. I have also witnessed several who wished after the fact they had done more. You know people, one can still have a traditional viewing and be cremated. Nothing wrong with that.
We celebrate so many things in our lives from the birth of a child, birthdays, people getting married (which is not cheap), the purchase of a new car, and even divorce, yet when someone close to us dies we seem to ignore what this person meant to us and want to just leave them on the side of the street. I'm almost afraid the day is coming when that will become an option for people. One never knows!
I would suggest you to go to your local funeral home and get your rearrangements made and paid for. The funeral business is the only business that will guarantee the cost of your arrangements for LIFE! Did you know that? I'm not aware of any other business that can make and stand by that claim.
Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Charles E Snyder said:
I have read all of the comments before and after my post. My intention was not to upset anyone. I was just stating my feelings and my beliefs. None of us are wrong. As someone else already stated, we are all entitled to our opinions and there is nothing that says we have to agree. Unfortunately, what has been said is already out there and I can't take it back. I stand by my comment, I just think I could have said it better.

-In this day and age, more people are becoming more concerned about what they are spending their money on. These are tough times. I just read an article about how a lot of local municipalities are seeing an increase in government funded funerals and burials. So many people just don't have the money to invest in any type of funeral let along a fancy one.

-As for flowers, I like to see fewer and fewer flowers at funerals. It shows that people realize that even though they look good, they are just going to go to waste after the ceremony. I would rather see a donation made or a card sent. I don't know that I ever really understood the tradition of sending flowers. Just my opinion there.

-I disagree with most of the comments about attire. If the deceased has only ever seen me in jeans, why would they want me to try and be someone that I am not by dressing up. I do not agree with wearing shorts and a T-shirt, but in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a nice pair of jeans and a nice shirt.

-The last comment I posted about grandma being gone was out of line. There are so many ways that I could have said that differently. I was on a rant and I posted exactly what was on my mind before thinking about how it sounded. I truly believe that once a person has died, they are no longer there in that body. Regardless of a person's religious beliefs, the spirit of the deceased has already gone on to another place. My opinion only.

I think what got me going on the rant was that it seems that people in general don't want to see change. To me, it seems that a lot of people want to live yesterday and not move into the future. The cultural, spiritual and ethnic make up of the United States has changed so much over the past 100 years. That is one thing that I like about the United States is that we have such a rich heritage that is changing every day. Not all people put the same emphasis on death. For the most part, the United States has been a Christian society and therefore, the mainstream idea of a funeral has been the same. When the makeup of society changes, the industries that serve that culture have to change. Either change or eventually succumb to the change by losing business. There will always be someone that is willing to change and have their business take up where you left off.

I will step down now and quit my rant. I realize that it wasn't the correct way to say what I wanted to and I hope I didn't offend anyone too much.
Click to expand...

I know I prolly could of wrote my earlier post to yours better also, but this is pretty much the point I was trying to make. It is so hard to type out your thoughts and make them sound right.
As for the tradition of the flowers, from what I was always told it was to mask the sent of the body when we had less than perfect (or none at all) embalming techniques.
 
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