Federal ! or Super Chief... that is the question

Which siren do you prefer??

  • B & M Super Chief

    Votes: 35 47.3%

  • Federal Q

    Votes: 39 52.7%
  • Total voters
    74
Our '64 has an "old" Q, that is to say a 1964 model. That's when they were still makin' "real" Q's to my thinking, that is to say the heavier clutch and other parts, and for whatever reason a much better sound quality than newer Q's.

A couple years ago in the Cold Creek Parade in Castalia, Jeff got into a siren "****in' match" with Ben Yetter driving a 1984 Sutphen with a Q. You could tell the difference from 4 blocks away, the '64 sounded awesome. Completely different from the newer one

As to B&M's, I've always loved the deep, kind of "throaty" sound they make. I've never driven a vehicle with one, but would love the opportunity to do so someday. Maybe someday, I'll get real brave and order one from Kevin, and mount it in the '64.
 
I'll post this again here just for fun:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-3zUGRBG0k[/ame]

Had to go back and research what Dwayne was running in the Caddy, it was a Federal Q2.

Now, full disclosure, I was running two well-worn B&M S8's that I cobbled up Super Chief nose cones to. Although a true Super Chief would probably perform 10 times better, what I did should be very similar acoustically. As you can hear, they wind up slower because I never had them rebuilt, but the basic sound still travels and penetrates better, in my opinion. Anyone that stood in front of my GMC would probably back me up on that.
 
Kevin O'Connell said:
Abe, I love the EQ! It's the best B&M salesman, bar none! They seldom last more than 7 months in heavy use, much like the undersized clutch on real Qs. When the proper speaker is used it's a lot harder to distinguish the EQ from its genuine counterpart, but many users are too cheap to use the proper speaker. Neither can match the volume of a Super Chief at 100 feet and beyond however. In a typical comparison at 100' the Q comes in at 108 dB(A), the Super Chief at 112 dB(A).

I apologize if facts conflict with anyone's opinion.
Click to expand...

I've merely pointed out that the two vids Paul has posted are very contradictory. He posted an electronic siren claiming to mimic the sound of the Federal Q, calling it a Q (when they actually sound NOTHING alike, anyone with an ear can hear the difference) compared to a genuine B&M Super Chief, posing the Federal Q as an actual Federal Q when in fact it is not.

You can easily hear the difference between a fake electronic Q, and a real one.

Then polled it asking which one is favorite, yet he polled a fake Federal product against a genuine B&M product.

I don't think Paul did it intentionally, I just wanted to point out we're comparing apples to oranges in this poll.

Another item to consider, even if we were comparing an authentic Q to an authentic B&M, you can't really take a youtube video as a true representation unless they were scientifically tested in the exact same location (i.e. tall buildings will create much more reverberation/echo making them appear louder than they really are, and distorting the noise), even weather will have an impact on how they sound on camera.

In years past, a salesman of outdoor warning sirens tried to compare his outdoor warning siren against the icnonic, usually yellow cold war symbol (and now long retired, yet best, loudest, and in my opinion best) Federal Thunderbolt mechanical siren, saying people could hear his mechanical siren 10 miles away. And then attempted to prove it by how many decibels of noise it made in the sound room when they were testing it (without providing any Federal data).

Now can you prove how far away your siren can be heard when you're testing it in a soundproof recording studio, with laptop and microphone.

I can personally tell you from my own experience the Federal Signal Thunderbolt was so loud from 2 blocks away I thought it would knock the walls down. Sadly, it was very old (circa 1070s), and decommissioned, taken down, and thrown in the city lot to be hauled away as trash and a brand new electronic Whalen siren was installed in its place which has battery backup, can transmit voice data, but is not nearly as loud.

I actually have a sound recording of the old Thunderbolt malfunctioning during a tornado warning circa 1997 or so, and it sounded like a dying cow.

But when it was working properly, it would all but knock the walls out of houses it was so loud.

Federal Signal is a proud old company, and their "Q" cannot be matched.

The B&M Super Chief is likely a high quality product, but it looks very old fashioned, really only belonging on West coast vehicles from the 60s-early 70s, and sounds like a high pitched motorcycle siren from the 50s IMHO.
 
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Do I need extra bracing to mount a Thunderbolt on my ambulance?

;)

BTW, my volunteer rescue squad had it's own Thunderbolt, mounted on a pole in the station parking lot. OK, I guess the county owned it, but we used the high-low tone as our house siren, which we could trigger from the station. The "wail" tone was only triggered by the county for Wednesday tests, tornadoes, or, being near DC, nuclear attack. When the rescue squad moved into the new station in 2013 - the Thunderbolt came along, too. It's in a closet, and the horn has been repaired and repainted. The plan is, eventually, to put it back up - somewhere.
 
Steve... this is what you need on the roof of you Buick. No extra bracing needed. Lightweight and loud.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfmTDGDNMgc[/ame]
 
Remember...this is an "opinion" poll. It has nothing to do with what is louder, more serviceable, etc. It has everything to do with what you like best...so it's hard to argue someone off their "opinion".

Heck, some prefer the Q simply because they like the grill, or they like saying "Q".

I prefer the sound of a double tone, but that is not an option so I will abstain.

Just my opinion.:D
 
Did we miss out?

I would be interested to hear from my Canadian colleagues, did any of you see the use of a Super Chief up here? In Alberta Federal seemed to have the corner on the market.
 
Abe Bush said:
I've merely pointed out that the two vids Paul has posted are very contradictory. He posted an electronic siren claiming to mimic the sound of the Federal Q, calling it a Q (when they actually sound NOTHING alike, anyone with an ear can hear the difference) compared to a genuine B&M Super Chief, posing the Federal Q as an actual Federal Q when in fact it is not.

You can easily hear the difference between a fake electronic Q, and a real one.

Then polled it asking which one is favorite, yet he polled a fake Federal product against a genuine B&M product.

I don't think Paul did it intentionally, I just wanted to point out we're comparing apples to oranges in this poll.

Federal Signal is a proud old company, and their "Q" cannot be matched.

The B&M Super Chief is likely a high quality product, but it looks very old fashioned, really only belonging on West coast vehicles from the 60s-early 70s, and sounds like a high pitched motorcycle siren from the 50s IMHO.
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True, the video posted features an EQ. However, there are countless YouTube videos featuring real Qs. Pretend they're your nostrils and pick one.

Federal is not an old company, it's a soulless corporation. The name has been around since 1901 but the company changes ownership regularly and is perpetually for sale. They ARE proud of their components, though: a self-destructing Q brake will set you back $176.00. You can't buy parts for their motor, however- because their supplier imports them complete from China and doesn't offer replacement parts to Federal. They began marketing R.P. Hartenstein's (and others) sirens in 1917 and didn't begin building their own until 1928. And who would want to match a sloppy, failure-prone Q when it's so easy to build something better?

By contrast, I am the third owner in the 103 year history of B&M- which has only changed ownership when someone died. We never made lighted signs, bicycles, washing machines, radar guns or street sweepers- only the finest sirens in the world.

You're almost correct about one thing, though: B&M isn't "likely a high quality product", it is THE highest quality siren. EVER. Unlike the Q, B&M rotors are actually concentric- with exactly .0055" clearance to the stator and balanced to 1/1000th of an ounce-inch. Our clutches are massive compared to the delicate, undersized Torrington drawn-cup clutches Federal uses. Our clutch hub is made of a proprietary die steel called D2, the outer race is 8620- gear steel. The investment cast stainless steel stator won't chip and peel with years of service under the worst winter conditions. You can't make that claim about the plated die cast zinc stator on your Q. Our armatures are made of the highest quality AMERICAN armature alloy, with laminations stamped by a company located within walking distance of our shop.

Old fashioned? The Super Chief was introduced 6 years after the Q. It was developed using the mockup wind tunnel at Lockheed Burbank. The Q was designed by a salesman named Bill Scott using a purpose-built motor supplied by Autolite- which became Prestolite, which became.... Extinct. Federal tried a number of others before Warfield came up with a suitable replacement in 1991. We don't have that problem as B&M has its own in-house brain trust. We build our own motors, and anyone with minimal skill can service them.

What really floors me is your "high pitched" remark. Do your multiple pharmacists know about each other? The main reason B&M sirens are more effective at 80' and beyond is the LOWER frequency of their signal!

Again, I apologize if facts get in the way of preconceived notions. As I mentioned previously, unless you've been on multiple responses using both products you are no more qualified to comment in this thread than a garbage man in a brain surgeons' forum.
 
It's a matter of likes not dislikes. I personally love the "Q" and to me the "Q" is the only way to go. I know nothing of the B&M because I never used one. My experience is with the "Q" so naturally I lean that way and why I put one on my Lifeliner.
 
Kevin O'Connell said:
As I mentioned previously, unless you've been on multiple responses using both products you are no more qualified to comment in this thread than a garbage man in a brain surgeons' forum.
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I'm probably one of the few here that have made multiple responses with both sirens; a Super Chief on our '69 S&S, and Qs on at least a dozen other rigs over the years.

Each has a unique sound; only personal preference dictates which "voice" is best. Personally, I prefer the one that causes brake lights to come on a half mile ahead of me.

The B&M is the superior product when weight, amp draw, and decibels are compared. Were both products were identical - and they're not - I would choose the one MADE IN THE USA over the other.
 
Tim Prieur said:
I would be interested to hear from my Canadian colleagues, did any of you see the use of a Super Chief up here? In Alberta Federal seemed to have the corner on the market.
Click to expand...

Never saw a Super Chief in Winnipeg during the 50's and 60's. Probably saw my first one when travelling in California during the 70's.
 
Since I read Kevin's post above I've been sittin' here trying to remember all of the names associated with Federal. I've got 2 Beacons on my desk, both of them have "Federal Sign And Signal Corporation" on their badges.

I know over the years in various ads and whatever it's been "Division of", and it seems they've moved all around the southwest side of Chicago. I just can't remember who all has owned them over the years.

Not important, just curious and trying to remember.
 
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