Everything was fine.....until......

Mike Boyer

Mike Boyer

Everything was going great yesterday, the Eureka was running great as usual then all of a sudden I stopped at a stop sign and she stalled I got it running again pulled over and she was steaming and VERY VERY HOT the water pump had given up and the 4.1 engine was COOKED ! no lights came on nothing she just stopped it got so hot that the recovery bottle was starting to melt !! so now I'll be looking to replace the 4.1 with a 4.7 engine I'm not even going to bother to try and fix the 4.1 she has only 53.000 km on it ...what a shame

So now the Eureka is done for this year the plan is to finish the Horton and work on getting the Horton on the road in a month or so the Eureka will just have to wait until next year.
 
ok I guess I was wrong about the engine size........ cadillac came out with a 4.5 ? not a 4.7
what year did Cadillac start putting the 4.5 in the fwd's they are basiclly the same engine right ??

has anyone here done a 4.1 to a 4.5 swap ?
 
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I do not know a lot about front drive Cadillacs rear drives are my thing. I would check Hollander Interchange as I do not think 4.1 and 4.7 interchange read that do not think not know. If you are not successful I can research for you and find out for sure. Suggest when you put engine in add aux gage package (amp,oil,water) then you will know whats up idiot lights tell you too little too late. You just found that out the hard way.
 
I was wrong about switching out to a 4.7 for some reason I had 4.7 in my head.
its 4.5 that was the next engine then the 4.9 then the Northstar engines I think ???? lol

and I'm pretty sure that the 4.5 will just drop in ? and it was a better engine ?

and for sure I will be adding gauges (amp, oil, and water) dam idiot lights !!!!!
 
Mike, I am sorry to hear of your over heated 4.1, it is a royal pain!

Cadillac started the 4.5 in the 1988 front-wheel-drive cars, all of them. The 4.5 was a much better engine than the 4.1.

Best of luck.
 
motor

:my2cents:sorry to hear about your motor. from experience I can tell you that ive been through the same thing. changing thr motor for a 4.5 or 4.9 can be made to bolt up but that's were the easy part ends. computer interface with the stock ecm will not work. plus the fuel delivery and emissions are not the same. I could go on but thr cheapest and probably best way is to fix it or find a good used one.beleive it or not the wrong antifreeze can cause serious corrosion problems. bad hole just sleeve it. I have been down this road and tried lots of cures but this way is the most dollar friendly.
 
Boy, Mike, that really sucks. I'm sorry this has happened to you. Interestingly, something similar happened to my '76 S&S Victoria years ago that is similar. Fortunately, it happened to the funeral home that owned it, not to me. The original 500 engine cooked and in desperation coach dealer Charlie Butler in Indianapolis dropped in a '69 engine. This all worked out in my favor as the high compression 472 is a far superior engine to the original low compression 500.

What I noticed, though, while driving, is that Cadillac put a horizontal row of idiot lights across the top of the dashboard. As my steering wheel iand seat are adjusted for comfortable driving, the top of the steering wheel perfectly covers the row of lights. It's extremely easy for a light to come on in my car and for it never to even be noticed. I have since installed analog gages that I can monitor while driving.

Again, sorry this happened to you. Lousy way to start your summer.
 
Chevrolet solved the problem of the red lights not being noticed on the Corvair Spyder by adding a buzzer to the system. If the engine overheated, the buzzer would sound along with the light illuminating, and you could shut down the engine before there was any damage. Most people don't look at analog gages often enough that they will catch an overheating problem that comes on suddenly. It takes less than 15 seconds for an engine to overheat, if it is the result of a broken hose, a stuck thermostat, bad water pump, etc.. Usually, when an engine starts overheating, it will have a loss of power, and it will start running rough or pinging. If it got as hot as you mentioned in your post, then I would be inclined to believe that you didn't pick up on the telltale symptoms that I mentioned.
You are also assuming that the engine is damaged, however, without fixing what was the cause of the loss of coolant, and then running the engine, you will not know the extent of the damage. Sometimes they will run well afterward, and the damage will not show until many miles down the road, in the form of a shorter service life.
Out of curiosity, when you have time, post the mileage, when the last coolant service was performed, and if any of the coolant and heater hoses on the engine are original. My suspicion would be that some of them are. A couple of years ago, there was a 1969 commercial chassis car at one of our meets. It had all original hoses on it, and one failed. The owner chose to replace only that one hose, and said that he would replace the rest of them when he got home, which was a couple hundred mile drive. I wonder to this day, if he ever changed the rest of them, or not. I can tell original hoses by the type of clamps that were used, and the markings on the hoses, short of someone meticulously changing them to look like they have never been replaced.
 
I would have to agree with Paul on this one, you should have noticed some sign of something not being right, from what he mentioned, to a hot or antifreeze smell, and steam from under the hood. I have lots of experience with the 4.1, have had a water pump go out, radiator fail, and a couple hoses fail, I noticed it fairly quick by the symptoms, shut if down, replaced the parts, and the car still runs to this day like new with 185,000 miles. I have always run regular Prestone 50/50 mix, nothing special. I would put a new water pump in it and see what happens, it may be fine.
 
The car is still at my buddy's place so I will take a look at it next week and see what happened. I changed the coolent and hoses last year before the meet and had the rad flushed out. maybe there is no motor damage ( I hope not) but I didn't smell anything, no steam, no nothing .....just stalled when I stopped at the stop sign and when I opened the hood she was HOT HOT HOT then the coolent was running out so maybe It didn't do as much damage as I think it did..... right now I'll just leave for a week or so so I can cool down ! lol
 
I'm hoping that I'm just over reacting about the motor being damaged being a 4.1 and all the story's about the over heating problems the engines had. Like paul said I guess I 'll have to fix what broke and see what happens when I start it up again.....maybe I'll get lucky ????
 
Worse case scenario, you have to install a rebuilt engine, or have your engine rebuilt. I recommend that you consider a Jasper engine. They do quality rebuilds, and stand behind their work. I did a computer look up on the price... $3298.00, plus core charge and shipping. With installation, etc., and other parts, you are probably looking at no more than $5000 total, and you will have a reliable engine. If you go for a used engine, you are gambling on an unknown item. If it fails, then all your investment in that engine is lost, and you are no better off. If you feel that the car warrants this type of investment, then go for the rebuild. If you don't think that the investment in a rebuild is worth the cost, then go used, and take your chances. The last resort is to sell the car to someone else that will either break it up for parts, or will fix it.
 
thermostat

from your description my guess would be the thermostat stuck. opens at almost 200 degrees so in a blink of an eye it will get real hot. but hot enough to melt plastic it had to be cooking! I would think it would shut itself down after a certain amount of heat was reached. 4.1 blues believe me I feel ya. I found these cars very reliable but very strict maintenance requirements as pointed out to me by david taylor caddy back in the day. if I remember correctly( which is a definite maybe) electrolysis was and I assume still is, a major issue with these motors. especially noting the extreme weather your way if it was cool enough and the ambient temp cool enough you probably had enough cool air going through the radiator to not trigger a overheating problem till the air stopped as you did. id have to look but I bet ive bought and sold 50 or more 4.1's and 4.5's as well and the only real problem that I had was always overheating. old car lot trick if you live where it's hot is to enable the fan relay to never close thus the fan never stops till the key is off. but that's here were its hot most of the time. just guessing. I hope nothing is wrong and you can diagnose the problem easily, like a thermostat.
 
I too feel your pain with the 4.1. But at least mine is still driveable.
When I started considering an engine swap for mine, I was told the 4.1 RWD is not the same as any of the FWD engines. Bolt patterns and accesories install were the major stumbling blocks.
I have had council from folks I respect here that it may be easier and better to use a 307 from the same year but obviously not a Eureka. I was given this advise when I found a running 91 limo with a 350. I thought bingo, everything I need to do the swap because I'd have the entire car to pick from. I was still advised to go the 307 route.
To me, Jasper engines are just too expensive.
Keep us posted with progress and decisions. I'm still looking for the perfect solution.
 
sorry to hear it. i have often wondered what to do if my 4.1 fails. i did a little research, and i think i would have to replace the transmission also. i don't think anything will match the bolt pattern of the 4.1 RWD to the transmission.
 
That bites, Mike. I will say that you may be surprised to find that after you fix the initial problem, it just might fire right up and be fine. Years ago, I was at a huge hot rod show in Ohio in my '64 Ford with a built up 428 in it. It was a warm night and sitting in traffic moving about 5 inches every 20 mins or so in a miles long procession of cars, it heated up very fast and stayed that way. Coolant was flowing out of the overflow at an alarming rate so I took a side street to get out of there. By the time I got back to the hotel, I doubt there was hardly any coolant in it. My friends dad said, "Don't shut that off, it will seize and be ruined." I had no choice--overheated, hardly any coolant left, almost out of gas, I shut it off. He just shook his head. I let the car sit all night, got coolant the next morning, filled it up, and it started right up. There was no evidence of anything ever happening, it ran just fine. I hope this is how it goes for you :)
 
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