Brakes and Brake Fluid '58 Cadillac
- Thread starter Rich Cosner
- Start date
Daniel Scully
PCS Member
I think I am more scared now to take it to the garage than to drive it with leaky brakes.
The business has been around since 1960, but judging by the comments, It doesn't sound like they would have this specialized tool.
I wont be doing this by myself, I am not a car guy (not sure if I ever will be, who knows)I am a computer guy. I can do very basic stuff, a brake job is not amongst that stuff.
I don't even have a proper jack to lift this car.
The business has been around since 1960, but judging by the comments, It doesn't sound like they would have this specialized tool.
I wont be doing this by myself, I am not a car guy (not sure if I ever will be, who knows)I am a computer guy. I can do very basic stuff, a brake job is not amongst that stuff.
I don't even have a proper jack to lift this car.
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no reason to be scared, you now know the question to ask. any shop that has been around since the 60s has personnel that know how to do one of these and the tools to do so. they do have a hydraulic set up now that's kind of spendy for this also.
the question is do you have the equipment of remove the drums from a tapered axial and would you be willing to do the job? then it's how much?
a honest man will say yes or no, or not for any amount
some will say yes we can but price it at a grand so you don't bring it in because the answer to the first is really no.
ask the question feel for the response and go from there. but get it fixed all of it. rubber hose change and steel lines if they look like flaky rust on the rear. then heal up and do the front later. then that part of the car is done. you'll feel good about driving the car and it won't just sit for another ten years
the question is do you have the equipment of remove the drums from a tapered axial and would you be willing to do the job? then it's how much?
a honest man will say yes or no, or not for any amount
some will say yes we can but price it at a grand so you don't bring it in because the answer to the first is really no.
ask the question feel for the response and go from there. but get it fixed all of it. rubber hose change and steel lines if they look like flaky rust on the rear. then heal up and do the front later. then that part of the car is done. you'll feel good about driving the car and it won't just sit for another ten years
Ok, the mechanic said this needs to be done (among other things). Anyone have a link for a kit for this particular system? He said he was having trouble finding it.
I also found this on another forum site, can anyone confirm if this is true or if it makes any sense?
"According to Wagner, the 1958 & 1959 Commercial Chassis Use kit #F13620 in the front - 1-1/8" bore. The use Kit #F3609 in the rear - 1-1/16" bore.
If your cylinders are not rebuildable you can have them re-sleeved at any competent brake/clutch/friction shop. I can recommend one in Southern California if you need to go that route... or,
They bolt right up on 58 and 59 CC cars, Stopping power is excellent, and the only other change required is using 5/16" bolts to mount the cylinder to the backing plate instead of 1/4".
"
Should I be looking for this "#f3609" kit in addition to the master cylinder rebuild kit? Any links would be appreciated. I emailed that Karp's Brake's place but I am just trying to attack this from as many angles as I can. I'm a little out of my element, it's the first time I had to go looking for parts for a shop to fix a vehicle i've owned, I'm used to them handling that part. The car is currently sitting at the shop waiting for the parts, i feel like my baby is unprotected.
"According to Wagner, the 1958 & 1959 Commercial Chassis Use kit #F13620 in the front - 1-1/8" bore. The use Kit #F3609 in the rear - 1-1/16" bore.
If your cylinders are not rebuildable you can have them re-sleeved at any competent brake/clutch/friction shop. I can recommend one in Southern California if you need to go that route... or,
They bolt right up on 58 and 59 CC cars, Stopping power is excellent, and the only other change required is using 5/16" bolts to mount the cylinder to the backing plate instead of 1/4".
"
Should I be looking for this "#f3609" kit in addition to the master cylinder rebuild kit? Any links would be appreciated. I emailed that Karp's Brake's place but I am just trying to attack this from as many angles as I can. I'm a little out of my element, it's the first time I had to go looking for parts for a shop to fix a vehicle i've owned, I'm used to them handling that part. The car is currently sitting at the shop waiting for the parts, i feel like my baby is unprotected.
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How does this look for the rebuild kit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-Trea...958|Make:Cadillac&hash=item1c4cb20de0&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-Trea...958|Make:Cadillac&hash=item1c4cb20de0&vxp=mtr
lastly, maybe... what shoes would I want then to pick up for the mechanic from this list?
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...+shoes.TRS1&_nkw=riveted+brake+shoes&_sacat=0
and should I pick up 2 of these for the rear?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WAGNER-F360...ADE-/160716368674?hash=item256b712b22&vxp=mtr
Sorry for the quadruple post. If I can get all these questions answered, I might just get somewhere
Maybe I am learning something by accident here.
(last minute edit) Could these be the right pick for new shoes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Centric-Par...958|Make:Cadillac&hash=item41863041cb&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...+shoes.TRS1&_nkw=riveted+brake+shoes&_sacat=0
and should I pick up 2 of these for the rear?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WAGNER-F360...ADE-/160716368674?hash=item256b712b22&vxp=mtr
Sorry for the quadruple post. If I can get all these questions answered, I might just get somewhere
Maybe I am learning something by accident here.(last minute edit) Could these be the right pick for new shoes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Centric-Par...958|Make:Cadillac&hash=item41863041cb&vxp=mtr
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Daniel Scully
PCS Member
Brakes
This is just for the Booster. Did they pull all 4 wheels and look at the complete system? If in doubt I would send the wheel cylinders, master cylinder and even the brake flex lines out for repair. Places such as Karps can rebuild any and all of the parts and make new DOT complainant brake lines if needed. Inspect the hard lines and if there is nay doubt replace them also. Unless a rebuild kit for the master cylinder and wheel cylinders is fairly new I would not use a old rebuild kit. Sure it will take longer to send the parts out but something you probably will never have to do again.
This is just for the Booster. Did they pull all 4 wheels and look at the complete system? If in doubt I would send the wheel cylinders, master cylinder and even the brake flex lines out for repair. Places such as Karps can rebuild any and all of the parts and make new DOT complainant brake lines if needed. Inspect the hard lines and if there is nay doubt replace them also. Unless a rebuild kit for the master cylinder and wheel cylinders is fairly new I would not use a old rebuild kit. Sure it will take longer to send the parts out but something you probably will never have to do again.
Ok, well let's say I want to give the guy the benifit of the doubt and let him rebuild it. What all do i need from this list? (obviously not the actual complete one for $800)
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...1&_nkw=1958+Cadillac+Master+Cylinder&_sacat=0
At this point I just want to get the brakes working so I can drive it to someone I can communicate with better. But it has no working brakes for me to get it there (they work for about 1 1/2 stops, then all bets are off). You replied just as I was calling him to tell him I was going to order what he needed, so now I am sort of committed to that course of action, yet I don't have the full picture of what I need to get for him. It's a younger guy, maybe mid-30's that you would think I could send links and emails with lots of info, but I have no direct way of emailing information so I initially wrote a letter, then also included one when I took the car over, I'm not sure he's fully paying attention to everything in the letters, and when we talk on the phone since I really don't know what I am talking about, its like 2/3's of a conversation and I usually end the conversation not quite sure of myself.
It's just a very odd situation I seem to have myself in here.
I did also emailed Karps with the information so maybe they will respond with something I can talk to the mechanic about.
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Daniel Scully
PCS Member
Brakes
He as the mechanic should be able to source the parts, as soon as you supply parts and something happens it is a catch 22 . I can see after something fails the words will be, well the customer supplied his own parts and there is no warranty etc etc. Do some research there has to be a shop in your area that can do the repairs. If you have to, have it transported back home until you find a shop that you are comfortable with doing the repairs.
He as the mechanic should be able to source the parts, as soon as you supply parts and something happens it is a catch 22 . I can see after something fails the words will be, well the customer supplied his own parts and there is no warranty etc etc. Do some research there has to be a shop in your area that can do the repairs. If you have to, have it transported back home until you find a shop that you are comfortable with doing the repairs.
John Royark JR
PCS Member
He as the mechanic should be able to source the parts, as soon as you supply parts and something happens it is a catch 22 . I can see after something fails the words will be, well the customer supplied his own parts and there is no warranty etc etc. Do some research there has to be a shop in your area that can do the repairs. If you have to, have it transported back home until you find a shop that you are comfortable with doing the repairs.
I agree completely. If the shop you are using cant or do not want to get the right parts, go somewhere else.
Once you said that his is 30ish, that was all that I needed to hear. He most likely hasn't ever worked on a drum brake car, and everything on this car is totally foreign to him. You need to find a mechanic that is at least 50 years old, so he will at least know the principles of the system. Remember the tool that both Dan and I posted pictures of??? Who ever does this job will need to have that tool, and know how to use it. I would suggest that you contact Jeff Hammer from Penn Dutch Restoration, and possibly he can recommend someone in your area of PA that is competent to do the repair. Jeff is on this website, and is also listed in the PCS Members Directory.
I like the '58 Combo in the google maps pic for his place... I guess he really is the guy I should talk to. Doesn't get much more spot on than that. I emailed him via their website. A 2 hour drive isn't too bad... once the brakes are working that is. i did ask about somewhere closer for this particular item.
Given the mid 30's thing , yeah that's not great and I know that. I am guessing though could be 40, I am getting older than I like to admit and its getting harder to judge. I am 42. I did talk to him yesterday after I ran home from work and things went a little better. He seems to at least sort of know something about these cars, he threw out the term "Commerical Chassis" and it needing special attention due to that, so he isn't totally in the dark. Also, he mentioned going to "the farm" to look for a new master cylinder (I think. Don't quote me, that was the subject we were on, but could have been something else), and my gut feeling is, any garage that has a "farm" to go looking for parts in, might not be totally bad for this.
The place is Paul's Auto
http://www.paulsautosinc.com/aboutus.aspx
Paul’s Autos, Inc
dba Hanchick & Lerch
Paul’s Autos was incorporated in 1999 when I purchased the business from Hanchick & Lerch Inc
Hanchick & Lerch was formed by my father – Hanchick and a partner –Lerch in the early 1950’s and has been at its current location since the 60’s. I have been a part of this business since 1972.
We are a small family run used vehicle sales and service business. Most of vehicles are local trades from New Car franchises.
Our service garage performs Pennsylvania safety inspections on cars, light trucks, and motorcycle. We also service and repair cars and light trucks.
We are located at 3418 Freemansburg Ave in Bethlehem Township, PA. Please allow 24 business hours for any online communications.
Thanks for visiting our site,
Paul Hanchick
Doesn't get much more spot on than that. I emailed him via their website. A 2 hour drive isn't too bad... once the brakes are working that is. i did ask about somewhere closer for this particular item. Given the mid 30's thing , yeah that's not great and I know that. I am guessing though could be 40, I am getting older than I like to admit and its getting harder to judge. I am 42. I did talk to him yesterday after I ran home from work and things went a little better. He seems to at least sort of know something about these cars, he threw out the term "Commerical Chassis" and it needing special attention due to that, so he isn't totally in the dark. Also, he mentioned going to "the farm" to look for a new master cylinder (I think. Don't quote me, that was the subject we were on, but could have been something else), and my gut feeling is, any garage that has a "farm" to go looking for parts in, might not be totally bad for this.
The place is Paul's Auto
http://www.paulsautosinc.com/aboutus.aspx
Paul’s Autos, Inc
dba Hanchick & Lerch
Paul’s Autos was incorporated in 1999 when I purchased the business from Hanchick & Lerch Inc
Hanchick & Lerch was formed by my father – Hanchick and a partner –Lerch in the early 1950’s and has been at its current location since the 60’s. I have been a part of this business since 1972.
We are a small family run used vehicle sales and service business. Most of vehicles are local trades from New Car franchises.
Our service garage performs Pennsylvania safety inspections on cars, light trucks, and motorcycle. We also service and repair cars and light trucks.
We are located at 3418 Freemansburg Ave in Bethlehem Township, PA. Please allow 24 business hours for any online communications.
Thanks for visiting our site,
Paul Hanchick
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Daniel Scully
PCS Member
Brakes
If you start replacing parts with other ones rather than have the old ones rebuilt,make you sure you get all the original parts back no matter how trivial the part .
If you start replacing parts with other ones rather than have the old ones rebuilt,make you sure you get all the original parts back no matter how trivial the part .
lets see my advice still stands ask the question, does he have a puller for the tapper axle once the drums are off it's just a brake job.