The color of front clips

[Jim Staruk]

I got into a rather heated discussion with someone about this and I’m hoping a can get the definitive answer from within this group.

If someone ordered a “dark red pearl” Cadillac ambulance from Superior (or any other ambulance builder), did the ambulance maker order a commercial chassis with a “dark red pearl” front clip from Cadillac or were all Cadillac commercial chassis which were delivered to the ambulance builder arrive in one or two basic colors and the ambulance builder re-painted it to the customer’s specifications?

Jim

 

[Charles E Snyder II]

I am sure that if the coach company had enough time from taking the order to delivery that they could custom order colors from the factory for the commercial chassis. But, if you called and ordered an ambulance for delivery next week, they would paint the front clip of whatever commercial chassis they had in stock to match the body color of the ambulance.

 

[Russell Dalziel]

I got into a rather heated discussion with someone about this and I’m hoping a can get the definitive answer from within this group.

If someone ordered a “dark red pearl” Cadillac ambulance from Superior (or any other ambulance builder), did the ambulance maker order a commercial chassis with a “dark red pearl” front clip from Cadillac or were all Cadillac commercial chassis which were delivered to the ambulance builder arrive in one or two basic colors and the ambulance builder re-painted it to the customer’s specifications?

Jim

Jim as far as I remember the Car was painted After the Fact.( Before The Customer Received it from The Builder)
Today All Ambulances are Painted after The Fact

Russ

 

[Jeremy D. Ledford]

My 77 M-M Landau Traditional was ordered from Cadillac with a Sovergin Gold front clip and Saddle (tan) colored front interior components and dash. My 73 M-M combination was ordered in Diplomat Blue with a blue dash. My moms 94 S&S limo was orded black and repainted at S&S Sovergin Gold after the build.

 

[Tony Karsnia - Deceased - 1971-2020]

One of the unknowns in this equation is if Cadillac even offered a "pearl red" for the particular year this ambulance was ordered. For example, our 1975 Lifeliner was special ordered in yellow (off the top of my head I don't remember the specific number associated with the paint code, but it is listed on the dataplate.) Cadillac did not offer this particular shade of yellow as a standard color in 1975 so the entire front clip and cowl began life as some other color and were then painted yellow by Miller-Meteor.

On the other hand, our 1968 Duplex is still wearing her original Regal Silver and there is no evidence to suggest the front clip and cowl were ever any other color.

Logic would suggest (yesterday and today) that coachbuilders would be provided with chassis in the most highly sought after, neutral colors (which means that ambulance chassis were most likely white, then painted to build-spec along with the rest of the car.) Of course, there were certain to be exceptions, but the vast majority of chassis photos I've seen, the front clips and cowls were black or white.

One other point to consider: Let's say a chassis was delivered to the manufacturer already painted "pearl red." If it were up to the coachbuilder to paint the rest of the car to EXACLTLY match the front clip, I would think we'd see more front clips that didn't EXACTLY match the rest of the car.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

the old black and white pictures I have see make it hard to tell. but why would they waste the paint. one would think they would get the cowl and front end in primer. not colored. the pictures I have see of the new plants show the incomplete cars as all black white or silver the 71 superior I took apart was a different gold under the front moldings. I would think it would be vary hard to say what it was painted from the factory before the after market people got to the car.

 

[Jim Staruk]

Conclusion...

One of the unknowns in this equation is if Cadillac even offered a "pearl red" for the particular year this ambulance was ordered.

Tony, I only used the color "pearl red" as an example of a not so common color.

With these few replies, I think it's safe to assume that there IS a possibility that parts of the car may have started off as one color at the coach builders' facility and left the facility in a different color.

Thank you to those who responded to my question.

 

[Jim Staruk]

the pictures I have see of the new plants show the incomplete cars as all black white or silver the 71 superior I took apart was a different gold under the front moldings. I would think it would be vary hard to say what it was painted from the factory before the after market people got to the car.

Ed, you told me my car was originally black before it was painted blue. Can you tell what color this car was when it left the Superior factory?

 

[John ED Renstrom]

:thumbsup:

Ed, you told me my car was originally black before it was painted blue. Can you tell what color this car was when it left the Superior factory?

black. the rear body is black under all the moldings. the most noticeable one is the sail molding behind the rear door. so it left the superior factory black. later in life got painted blue. the painter did not remove any moldings they are all black under them. then some one did a quickie white over the blue. still not removing any moldings. when we get to striping the car we will find out what color the front end was when if left GM. but the cowl behind the engine is black. they would have had to remove the cowl to weld the body together. so it would have been painted in the factory the same color as the body then. I can tomorrow run the sander over the hood and cut the paint down so we can see. post a picture tomorrow:thumbsup:

 

[John ED Renstrom]

went out and sanded down a spot or two. the colors remain constant with this car. it is a red primer with black over it. then a layer of blue then a layer of white. I don't see a lot of sealers used on this car. a lot of times there is a layer of gray sealer between the colors. so it is safe to say on this one that the front end was either black or red primer when received by superior. if I remember Roberts with out going to the pictures it was the #48 red as the first color on the cowl. the 71 superior I did was a different gold color on the front end under the moldings, primer under that. so it's the only one I have seen that the nose did not match the body. the 72 Cb was white. this S&S was the dark blue. that 75 cb I sold was dark blue Under the cheap white but I never striped it so don't really know what was under the blue. so out of 6 pro cars I have done, only one had a diferent first color on the nose then the body. when I got that car it was still in the factory color and had not had a repaint on it.

 

[Daniel Scully]

Paint

Can you tell what color this car was when it left the Superior factory?

Couple of the 68 ,you can see the orginal color front and rear. The 68 has a paint tag on the cowl.

 

[Daniel Scully]

Paint and Body

This is why the fenders rot out.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

the ever famous leaf trap. nice patch

 

[Dave Miner]

Ours was Gold

The chassis had to have arrived to Miller Gold then painted yellow then was re sprayed Red and we will spray it again a brighter red. (Paul S. begged us to do it white over red so we will do it to make him happy).

 

[Jeff Miller]

My '55 S&S started off life as a pecos beige car. From what I can tell this was the color of the front clip and body as it left S&S back in '55. I would think that the front end would be supplied in primer otherwise you would have to have the exact batch of paint supplied with the chassis in order for it to be a dead on match. My car has red oxide primer, pecos beige, then a respray in black..so I found no other color lurking beyond the beige. The weird part is, I own a restored 1956 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special that came from Cadillac as a Pecos Beige car. I am now, once I get to that in my restoration, going to paint it back Pecos Beige with the Black Vicodec style roof covering. I'll include here a shot of my 56 Sixty Special for color reference, as well as, the cleaned spot of the hood of my 55 S&S Landau. I had really thought that the color was white, but under the chalky appearance was pecos beige. I am very excited that now I will have a matching pair...except the fleetwood has an alpine white roof.

Jeff Miller

 

[John ED Renstrom]

I'll have to do more asking on this "getting them in primer" also. I would understand white and black coming from the factory. but then I would think that more would be resprayed a different color. then when you get to taking the car apart you will find that it is the base color under all the moldings on the front end. for the aftermarket manufactures to remove all the trim and paint then put it back together would be rather time consuming. Dr White has on his site a number of pictures taken from the S&S plant during final assy. but none show the front clip on the chassis. it's hard for me to imagine they got it Orange and white but white then the orange resprayed would be a easy go. they also show the cowl being off the chassis and placed on the body trolley with the rest of the body. that would only make since. they would have had to remove wiring and the other controls to remove the cowl. but that would be a lot easier then trying to put the body together on the chassis.

 

[Kevin M. Parkinson]

I just saw this picture on the Cadillac & LaSalle Club site. The third car appears to be destined for a coach builder and appears to have shiny paint. I don't know if factory primer is shiny. But if not, maybe this could answer whether they left the factory in primer.

 

[Russell Street]

The chassis that I remember seeing at Superior were mostly black primer, with the occasional gray thrown in. The chassis storage lot was back by the docks where we unloaded.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

the factory primer would have a semi gloss shine to it. notice there are no fenders on the chassis either were the car in front is complete

 

[Paul Steinberg]

I'll have to do more asking on this "getting them in primer" also. I would understand white and black coming from the factory. but then I would think that more would be resprayed a different color. then when you get to taking the car apart you will find that it is the base color under all the moldings on the front end. for the aftermarket manufactures to remove all the trim and paint then put it back together would be rather time consuming. Dr White has on his site a number of pictures taken from the S&S plant during final assembly. but none show the front clip on the chassis. it's hard for me to imagine they got it Orange and white but white then the orange resprayed would be a easy go. they also show the cowl being off the chassis and placed on the body trolley with the rest of the body. that would only make since. they would have had to remove wiring and the other controls to remove the cowl. but that would be a lot easier then trying to put the body together on the chassis.

Interesting that there is no heating / cooling equipment on the cowl. This means that the body builder needed to be quite familiar with the installation of these component parts. There is a lot of assembly of the individual components under the dash, and it isn't an easy job to install them unless you are infinitely familiar with what goes where and in what order. I had always assumed that the cowl was shipped with the dash intact, and that upon assembly of the body to the cowl, they just lengthened the windshield pillars in the matching of the two components. This one picture puts the chassis builders in a whole new light as final builders of these vehicles.