NYS Altered vehicle law eff 02-01-2021

[Ray Stanton]

Members I recently had my license plate taken away by NYS because the plague issued in 1987 did not contain all the info required by a 2011 federal law.. My Fleetwood is considered a altered vehicle in NYS. I was wondering if anyone knew what was going on in NY since Feb 1? Do we know how many members we have in NY? I went to inspect my 1987 Cadillac Limo by OGara, and my plates were revoked, as the OGARA plate did not comply with federal rule 49cfr567.7. Ogara did not reweigh the car after making a limo out of the Fleetwood, nor did they put max people capacity on the plate. There may be many others in NY that will have their plates revoked. Have you heard of this? Has any appeal been made to the state of NY? We would have a better chance of fighting this as a group. Let me know. You would think there would be a grandfather clause for cars that are not in service, and only for car show use. This is a DMV issue, not a DOT issue. I have a DOT exemption.

 

[Paul Steinberg]

The state changed the law after there was a bad accident with 20 deaths a couple of years ago (October 6, 2018) in a converted 2001 Ford Excursion stretched limousine. You will have to work with a State legislator to resolve the issue, and just park your car until it is resolved, register the car in another state, or sell it.

Cause of death...

State police release cause of death for 20 victims of limo crash

All died of "multiple severe traumatic blunt force injuries," according to information released by the State Police on Friday afternoon.

www.democratandchronicle.com

original report...

20 Killed in Limo Crash in New York; Deadliest U.S. Accident in 9 Years (Published 2018)

The stretch limousine held the driver and 17 friends headed to celebrate a birthday at a brewery in upstate New York. Two pedestrians were also killed.

www.nytimes.com

NTSB Final Report of Cause of Accident...

NTSB Issues Final Report On Schoharie Crash: Faults Limo Company, State Agencies

The National Transportation Safety Board on Thursday issued its final report on the 2018 fatal limousine crash in Schoharie, New York. In September, the…

www.wamc.org

National Transportation Safety Board. 2020. Stretch Limousine Run-Off-Road Crash, Near Schoharie, New York, October 6, 2018. Highway Accident Report NTSB/HAR-20/03. Washington, DC: NTSB.
Abstract: On October 6, 2018, about 1:55 p.m., a 2001 Ford Excursion XLT stretch limousine, operated by Prestige Limousine and Chauffeur Service, was traveling south on New York State Route 30 (NY-30) near Schoharie, New York. The limousine, occupied by a driver and 17 passengers, was descending a grade that began 1.81 miles north of a T-intersection with New York State Route 30A (NY-30A). The posted speed limit was 55 mph. Although the driver likely applied the brakes while descending the hill, the brake system failed to effectively slow the limousine, and its speed increased to over 100 mph. The driver steered to avoid a car stopped at the NY-30/NY-30A intersection, proceeded past a stop sign, crossed the intersection, and entered the driveway of a restaurant parking lot. The limousine struck an unoccupied sport utility vehicle (SUV) parked in a field adjacent to the driveway. Two pedestrians standing near the SUV were struck by it when the SUV was forced forward by the limousine. The limousine continued into a ravine, where it struck an earthen embankment and several trees. As a result of the crash, 20 people died, including all 18 limousine occupants and the 2 pedestrians
The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) identified the following safety issues: inadequate brake system maintenance, vehicle alteration affecting compliance with applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, drivers falsifying medical histories in medical certification examinations for commercial driver’s licenses, ineffective state oversight of intrastate motor carrier operations, and insufficient occupant protection for limousine passengers. On the basis of its findings, the NTSB makes safety recommendations to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, the State of New York, the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles, and the National Limousine Association.

Excerpt from the report:

13. The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles’ failure to verify information in its vehicle registration program allowed the crash limousine to be incorrectly classified and improperly registered, which enabled Prestige Limousine and Chauffeur Service to circumvent the more thorough state safety and inspection requirements that might have prevented the crash.
14. The state inspection stations Mavis Discount Tire and Wilton Truck Center knowingly inspected and certified the crash limousine, which was clearly an altered vehicle, in contravention of the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles’ policy that prohibited stations from inspecting modified or altered vehicles, including stretch limousines.
15. By not ensuring that state inspection stations adhered to the policy that prohibited them from inspecting altered vehicles, the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles enabled the crash limousine to undergo annual vehicle inspections instead of the more rigorous semiannual New York State Department of Transportation bus safety inspections, as required.
16. The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles did not provide effective oversight of state inspection stations, allowing Mavis Discount Tire and Wilton Truck Center to perform inadequate inspections of the crash limousine that failed to detect serious safety deficiencies before the crash.
17. The New York State Department of Transportation’s ineffective enforcement and lack of repair verification processes allowed Prestige Limousine and Chauffeur Service to continue to transport passengers in the crash limousine despite the carrier’s (1) not having operating authority and (2) failing to repair out-of-service vehicle violations that compromised the limousine’s safety.
18. The State of New York’s implementation of Assembly Bill A.9056 should help resolve the safety problem of stretch limousines continuing in commercial operation without having their out-of-service violations repaired.
19. The New York State Department of Transportation’s enforcement efforts directed toward motor carriers that continue operating after being cited for serious out-of-service violations have been inadequate, and additional strategies and repair verification processes are needed.
20. Making the definition of what constitutes a “bus” consistent between the New York State agencies responsible for registering and inspecting higher occupancy passenger-carrying vehicles would reduce the likelihood of miscommunication between these safety oversight agencies and of motor carriers exploiting administrative loopholes to avoid safety scrutiny.
21. Although the extent of the problem is unknown, some motor carriers across the nation are likely continuing to operate without correcting out-of-service violations, placing the motoring public at risk.
Recommendations
New Recommendations
To the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration:
Provide guidance and best practices to states to enforce carrier compliance with state-issued out-of-service orders, based on available information on state efforts to prevent vehicles and drivers from continuing to operate without authority or after being cited for out-of-service violations. (H-20-24)
To the State of New York:
Require the New York State Department of Transportation to implement the “key recommendations” in the 2014 New York Office of the State Comptroller Report 2012-S-13 addressing vehicle repair certification requirements, strategies to improve carrier compliance with out-of-service violations, and progressive enforcement actions for continued operation of out-of-service vehicles. (H-20-25)
Require the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles to adopt the New York State Department of Transportation’s definition of a bus as a passenger vehicle for hire with a seating capacity of 10 or more. (H-20-26)

 

[Paul Steinberg]

Members I recently had my license plate taken away by NYS because the plague issued in 1987 did not contain all the info required by a 2011 federal law.. My Fleetwood is considered a altered vehicle in NYS. I was wondering if anyone knew what was going on in NY since Feb 1? Do we know how many members we have in NY? I went to inspect my 1987 Cadillac Limo by OGara, and my plates were revoked, as the OGARA plate did not comply with federal rule 49cfr567.7. Ogara did not reweigh the car after making a limo out of the Fleetwood, nor did they put max people capacity on the plate. There may be many others in NY that will have their plates revoked. Have you heard of this? Has any appeal been made to the state of NY? We would have a better chance of fighting this as a group. Let me know. You would think there would be a grandfather clause for cars that are not in service, and only for car show use. This is a DMV issue, not a DOT issue. I have a DOT exemption.

Since your car was built prior to the Federal regulation, I believe that you should have an exemption, however, what I think, and the state says, is a wide gap. I would start by talking to a State Legislator about the issue you have, and that both the Federal regulation and the new State law don't apply to your vehicle, since it was manufactured 24 years prior to the legislation. I would compare it to the states mandate to require lighting regulations in effect in 2021 be applicable to a 1987 manufactured vehicle. You need to stress that your car is a collector car, and not being used in commerce.
Please post a picture of your car.

 

[John ED Renstrom]

Have you tried to licence it with historical taggs?

 

[Walter Suiter]

Emperor Nipples 1 is very quietly trying to avoid responsibility for the multiple failures of NYSP and NYDMV in the Schoharie wreck. State employees found multiple ways to avoid doing their jobs prior to the wreck, and the owner of the "Limo company" beat feet back to a Country he can't be extradited from.

It gets even worse when you know several Limo operators had figured out how to endrun NYS Vehicle Inspection by running failed commercial Limos thru regular Inspection Stations. DMV had turned off a feature in the Inspection Computer system that would have prevented reinspects by non commercial vehicle inspectors. DMV had also failed to tell Inspection Stations only authorized to do cars & light trucks they couldn't lawfully inspect Limos & Busses. Now DMV is going nuts to hide the salami.

Were it my car I'd be making a call to the Maine Sec of State to ask if they will plate it as a NONRESIDENT Recreational Vehicle.

 

[Ray Stanton]

Have you tried to licence it with historical taggs?

Not available, they still are looking at the weight, the car was never re weighed after conversion

 

[Ray Stanton]

Emperor Nipples 1 is very quietly trying to avoid responsibility for the multiple failures of NYSP and NYDMV in the Schoharie wreck. State employees found multiple ways to avoid doing their jobs prior to the wreck, and the owner of the "Limo company" beat feet back to a Country he can't be extradited from.

It gets even worse when you know several Limo operators had figured out how to endrun NYS Vehicle Inspection by running failed commercial Limos thru regular Inspection Stations. DMV had turned off a feature in the Inspection Computer system that would have prevented reinspects by non commercial vehicle inspectors. DMV had also failed to tell Inspection Stations only authorized to do cars & light trucks they couldn't lawfully inspect Limos & Busses. Now DMV is going nuts to hide the salami.

Were it my car I'd be making a call to the Maine Sec of State to ask if they will plate it as a NONRESIDENT Recreational Vehicle.

Several have suggested that, but Maine requires a car safety inspection each year, so not easy

 

[Ray Stanton]

Since your car was built prior to the Federal regulation, I believe that you should have an exemption, however, what I think, and the state says, is a wide gap. I would start by talking to a State Legislator about the issue you have, and that both the Federal regulation and the new State law don't apply to your vehicle, since it was manufactured 24 years prior to the legislation. I would compare it to the states mandate to require lighting regulations in effect in 2021 be applicable to a 1987 manufactured vehicle. You need to stress that your car is a collector car, and not being used in commerce.
Please post a picture of your car.

I talked with DMV at length, no exemption was made. That was why I was hoping to see how many people were effected in NY by this. In these times in NY and USA, no senator is going to help this issue with only 2 people effected in upstate NY. This would need a group of people.

 

[Walter Suiter]

Minimal chance, but reach out to Bill Reilich currently the Supervisor of the Town of Greece NY and a big collector. Bill initially went to the Legislature in large part due to car collectors and he's still in the "hobby". He sold the running Batmobile to another collector a couple years back.
If anyone is conversant it will be Bill.

I still LOVE Maine. I have a hunch there are a few Maine Inspectors traveling about doing inspections. The number of commercial trailers running Maine plates is too large for them all to go to Maine for Inspection.

 

[Walter Suiter]

As the Scohare crash plays out we now see a tiny bit of honesty creep out.
It's been a known since a couple days after the wreck people from the towing companies involved were given a talking to by NYS officials that clamped their mouths shut tighter than Gorilla Glue could have.
Now the Head Fed is retiring and letting a bit of daylight in.
NYS DOT and every other NY agency had been too comfortable in ignoring their jobs, so they stonewalled the investigation to cover their tracks.
The Feds failed to assert their authority as well. Didn't want to make waves and all that crap. After all they gotta work with Emperor Nipples 1s people in the future.

CAPITAL REGION, NY (WRGB) — It's been two a half years ago since NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt took me on a personal tour of the NTSB laboratory where the secrets of the 2001 Ford Excursion that crashed on route 30 in Schoharie would literally go under the microscope. He still recalls the scope of the tragedy.

"When we first learned of the crash ... we had been told there were 14 fatalities. On plane we were told 16. By time we landed in Albany, we were told it was 20."

The horrific crash happened on a Saturday. By Sunday night, Sumwalt was holding his first press conference in Albany.

MORE: Four sisters among victims in deadly limo crash in Schoharie

From past experience, Sumwalt expected his highly skilled team of NTSB investigators to examine the vehicle, interview all those involved, study the roadway and state regulations and come up with a voluminous report that would "include a probable cause and safety recommendations." Days after the accident he made me this promise:


"My goal is to have this one completed prior to the anniversary date but that's my goal."

But it was a promise he could not keep.

"We did not get a lot of support from state and county officials at the end of the day to get it done."

I asked him, what was the biggest obstacle?

"Simply a lack of access to the vehicle."

MORE: NTSB opens docket on Schoharie Limo case

Sumwalt waited nearly a year to do an extensive inspection of the vehicle that would ultimately reveal catastrophic brake failure.

The operator of Prestige Limo--the company that put the vehicle on the road--was eventually indicted on 20 counts of manslaughter and 20 counts of criminally negligent homicide--but, because of pending criminal charges, Sumwalt's team never got a chance to interview Nauman Hussain.

MORE: NTSB released final report in Schoharie limo crash, months after adopting report

"You look at the horrendously poor condition the limo was in and identify deficiencies in oversight on state level for limos. At the end of the day, we had information that we needed for a thorough and accurate investigation."

The NTSB's final report cited the "egregious disregard for safety" by the Prestige Limo company and ineffective oversight by the state DMV and DOT as the probable causes for the accident.

"It didn't need to happen. This was an operator that was doing everything they could to skirt the regulations. And unfortunately, 20 lives were lost."

 

[Ray Stanton]

Members I recently had my license plate taken away by NYS because the plague issued in 1987 did not contain all the info required by a 2011 federal law.. My Fleetwood is considered a altered vehicle in NYS. I was wondering if anyone knew what was going on in NY since Feb 1? Do we know how many members we have in NY? I went to inspect my 1987 Cadillac Limo by OGara, and my plates were revoked, as the OGARA plate did not comply with federal rule 49cfr567.7. Ogara did not reweigh the car after making a limo out of the Fleetwood, nor did they put max people capacity on the plate. There may be many others in NY that will have their plates revoked. Have you heard of this? Has any appeal been made to the state of NY? We would have a better chance of fighting this as a group. Let me know. You would think there would be a grandfather clause for cars that are not in service, and only for car show use. This is a DMV issue, not a DOT issue. I have a DOT exemption.

Members, apparently NY politicians are not satisfied with creating havoc for collectible car owners in NY, there is now pending legislation on a federal level, that will impact all stretch limos. Especially if your car is 9 passenger. You will be required to have a CDL with passenger endorsement, even if your car is only used for display, and not for hire. Make sure your state and federal representatives know they need to exclude car show only vehicles. See attached 3 page document about what they want to do on a federal level. The collector hobby needs to be heard!

 

[Rick Franklin]

Members, apparently NY politicians are not satisfied with creating havoc for collectible car owners in NY, there is now pending legislation on a federal level, that will impact all stretch limos. Especially if your car is 9 passenger. You will be required to have a CDL with passenger endorsement, even if your car is only used for display, and not for hire. Make sure your state and federal representatives know they need to exclude car show only vehicles. See attached 3 page document about what they want to do on a federal level. The collector hobby needs to be heard!

these proposed changes relate to NEW limousines.

 

[Ray Stanton]

these proposed changes relate to NEW limousines.

That's not how NY DMV handled it, they consider my car a 9 passenger, and are requiring me to have a CDL, no exceptions on age of car