Coolant system maintenance..

Paul Steinberg

PCS Life Member Past President 2010-2012 2020-2024
Staff member
Super Site Supporter
If you have a hot running engine, the below information might help to alleviate the problem. Overheating can be caused by a multitude of other things from improper ignition timing, to spark pre detonation because of gasoline quality. It is difficult to diagnose these conditions long distance.
If the engine coolant passages are clogged or have a layer of rust or slime on them, that they will not properly cool the engine block. For this, I would suggest that you use either a commercial coolant system cleaner, or a home made brew that I have used successfully.
I first clean out the heater core by removing the two heater hoses. I drain the heater core through the return side of the heater core hose, by lightly pressurize it with air. I never exceed 10 PSI of air, since I don't want to damage the heater core. By blowing through the return hose, you are actually blowing the crud in the heater core out of it. Then with a garden hose, I run water through the return heater hose till it runs clear.
Remove the lower engine to radiator hose and drain the coolant from the engine block and radiator. Then remove the thermostat. This is located under the top of the engine at the base of the upper radiator hose. Usually it has 2 or 3 bolts holding it into a steel goose neck. You can take the goose neck to the auto parts store for them to match up a new gasket, and while you are there, buy new heater hose, upper and lower radiator hoses, and the water pump by pass hose if your car is so equipped.
Once you have the entire system drained, and the thermostat removed, then reinstall all the hoses, and put about 2 pounds of Arm and Hammer washing soda into the radiator, and fill with water. You might have to use some water just to get the washing soda into the radiator. Fill the radiator to the top with tap water, reinstall the pressure cap and then start the engine. Allow the mixture ample time to circulate at a fast idle. This should take about 30 minutes. Then shut the engine, and remove the lower radiator hose and drain into a container. Be careful not to get scalded. Reattach the lower hose when the engine has cooled.
Wait for the engine to thoroughly cool before adding water. If you put cold water into a hot engine, you will crack a head or engine block. When the engine is cooled down, fill with water again, and run until the engine is warm to the touch. No need to get this rinse water very hot. Drain as above, and again wait for the engine to cool. Then put 2 boxes of baking soda into the radiator and fill with water as above. Run this for a few minutes until the engine is warm to the touch. Drain as above. You are now finished with the block cleaning process.
Remove the upper and lower radiator hoses, and then cut off the heater hoses about 3" from the heater box, and leave the rubber hose on the heater core nipples. This is important so you don't damage the heater core. Now, using a new single edge razor blade, cut along the length of the heater hose being careful not to go too deep on the first cut. You want to relieve the tension that is holding the heater hose to the heater core nipple. Once you have fully slit the heater hose, using a small flat bladed screwdriver, insert it into the cut on the hose, and gently pry the two sides of the hose apart. You want to be careful not to pull on the hose itself, but to gently peal the hose off the nipple. Once you have the hoses off the heater core nipples, then carefully clean the nipples so they are smooth with no traces of the old rubber sticking to them.
Blow out any water that is in the heater core and engine block now.
Using the old heater hoses as a guide, cut new heater hoses to the proper length, and install on the engine block and tighten the clamps. On the heater core nipple, you will have a more difficult time getting these to slip on. You can use any water soluble lubricant, or do as the old timers did, and use some spit! Don't forget to put the clamps onto the hose before you install the hoses. Replace the thermostat and upper and lower radiator hoses. Replace the water pump by pass hose if your car has one. I prefer the molded hoses to the universal flex hoses, but both will work. The new molded hoses no longer come with a spring in the lower hose, so you might consider using the original spring from the old hose in the new hose. The auto parts stores say that the spring is no longer needed. I have no opinion on this claim.
I suggest that you purchase the 50/50 premix anti freeze rather than mixing your own. It is premixed with PH neutral de-mineralized water. If you want to mix your own, then purchase de-mineralized water for mixing. Tap water today has too many minerals that are not good for the cooling system. You now have a clean cooling system that should serve you well. If you change coolant every 2 or 3 years, then you will not have to do this cleaning again. One of the reasons to change coolant, is that the water pump lubricating properties of the coolant start to break down with time. The freeze protection of the coolant will always be present, no matter what the age of the coolant.
Final precaution. The coolant and drained water contain poisons, that will make children and pets sick, and possibly fatal if ingested. Make sure to properly dispose of all drained components.
 
radiator mix

Paul,
Thanks for the radiator '101'. I am going to print this out and put it in my shop manual. Your mix is cheaper than the store bought stuff and not as toxic. That is good for all of us.
My radiator problem seems to have come on late last summer. I had to run the heater in 80 plus degrees to keep the gauge in MY comfort zone while driving at 65-70 mph. That is what prompted the addition of an electric fan and getting the radiator boiled out this past month. I realize my car is 48 years old but it never seemed to have a problem since we got it in 74. Its only been in the this past year.
I have another radiator stored away in the garage just in case. Wonder how many parts we should be storing, 'just in case'?
Thanks again for the '101'.
I am sure we will all benefit from your expertise.
Mike
 
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Overheating is the symptom of a problem, and locating the cause can be difficult. I have seen water pumps that don't pump as well as when new, but look perfectly good from the outside. Thermostats that open partially and don't allow the full flow of the water pump. Engine blocks and radiators partially clogged with rust particles. Figuring out what is the problem is the difficult part, but cleaning is cheap and is necessary if it hasn't been done in a very long time. Same for changing a suspect thermostat. Water pumps are expensive.
The toxicity comes from the antifreeze and the cleaning. When you clean a radiator, you are removing minute amounts of lead in the process. Since you have already had your radiator serviced, if you decide to clean the engine block, then use the old radiator to do this procedure, and then switch it back after the block is clean. Sometimes it takes more than one treatment to get the block passages clean. You usually can tell a lot by the condition of the drained anti freeze. If it is rusty in color, then the block is very dirty with rust. If it appears to have oil in it, then you might have an internal leak. One thing to keep in mind is that cleaning the engine block can lead to other problems if the rust is keeping something in the engine block from leaking, such as rusted freeze plugs. Either way, you will need to replace the rusted parts eventually. Might as well do it on your time schedule, rather than if it starts to leak on a trip and you have to have it done away from home. Same with the water pump. If you don't know when it was last changed, then you should have a spare available with you when you travel. You usually can find a mechanic to change the part, but locating the part can take a few days for an old car.
PS... If you change the water pump, keep the old one if it is original to the car. You can have it rebuilt if you want to keep the car 100% stock original. It will have date and casting numbers that will match the engine block. The small amount that you will get for the core charge isn't worth giving up an original part.
 
Great information. I had this issue and found out my radiator was 40% clogged from just sitting for years. Coolant was nice and green and I thought flowed well and it would only spill over once in a while. Trying to get road ready for Flint I thought it best to get a new one. Seems fine now but will know for sure tomorrow while doing a parade and car show with a projected high of 97 degrees.
 
If you put in a new radiator without first cleaning the engine block, the crud in the engine block will eventually migrate to the new radiator and start to clog it also. I hope that you saved the old radiator as suggested??
If your car has a thermostatic controlled fan blade, the thermostat part might be bad also...
 
If you put in a new radiator without first cleaning the engine block, the crud in the engine block will eventually migrate to the new radiator and start to clog it also. I hope that you saved the old radiator as suggested??
If your car has a thermostatic controlled fan blade, the thermostat part might be bad also...

Blade runs on the belt so if engine is running, blade is turning. Did not clean the engine block but too late now. I saved the old one but may just scrap it since trying to keep it original is not that important to me and it will require a complete re-do. It was so bad my local radiator guy would even attempt to boil it out.
 
Those of you who have Cadillacs with either a 472 or 500 engine may wish to consider purchasing a higher output water pump. Having one of these is very helpful during long engine idle times, such as we experience during parades. MTS in CA offers these for $95.00, and may ba great choice when replacing your existing pump.

http://www.mtscadparts.net/servlet/the-283/Cadillac-High-Flow-Water/Detail

I have decided to use this company to re-build the engine in my Criterion. They will use my long block, rather than doing an exchange. When completed I expect a net HP of around 300 to 350. This will be a great improvement over how it came out of the factory, as it was only rated at 200HP. They will also rebuild/tune the carb to the new engine specs. When completed it will still retain its stock appearence.

You can see their entire web-site at: www.500cid.com
 
one other trick to add to the baking soda is a cup of dawn dish washing soap in the first go round. this will help keep the mud hiding in the block in suspension so that you can flush it out. cover the radiator with a cloth to bring it up to temp faster. but if your experiencing heating problems were you never had any before. do the flush and change the thermostat. a quick test of the flow in the radiator is to remove the hoses and cap. cover the bottom hole with your hand and then refill the radiator to the top. when you remove your hand the lower opening should keep a full hole stream and empty very fast. if it does not them consider the clean and repair. old hoses will collapse on you also. the reason for the wire was to keep the lower one (suction side) from doing just that. when ever you flush do it in a reverse pattern. with no way to test for the acid build up in the coolants changing it is necessary . none or that is most of us do not do it often enough. the high flow water pump will help if your not doing a lot of high speed driving but only if the fan is working. good clutch and a shroud or one of the flex fans hooked up with out a fan clutch will move the air. both water and air have to move to cool and the water must be able to make contact with the block and the radiator to transfer the heat. clean on the inside is necessary for that. even if you have a Corvair. you got to be clean on the inside.
 
Water Temp Question??

New radiator, water pump, fan clutch, temp gauge, and thermostat in my '72 Pontiac. Tonight, I just finished flushing the system using a commercial prep (could not locate the Arm and Hammer per my dialog with Paul) and refilled the radiator with new 50/50 pre-mix. As I drive, the water temp gauge seems to fluxuate quite a bit ranging from about 190 to 230 or so. Since the first gauge was broken, I have nothing to compare this behavior to.

What should the Pontiac water temp operating range be?

What is the "overheating mark" as I sure don't want to push it?

Thanks...
 
What temperature thermostat did you use? Technically speaking the thermostat is supposed to open at its specified range, and then open and close to maintain that temperature. If you are getting wide swings of temperatures, I would be suspicious of other problems that are lurking in the shadows.
 
or it is possible that your new thermostat is not working. putting one in back-wards is a possibility to. as stated a 190 should open at around 190 and stay open. if you think it may be bad. remove it and using a thermometer put it on the stove in a small pan of water and heat it up. see when it opens or if it opens and closes. the gauge should not swing but come up to a point and stay there. if you have a electric gauge check all your connections. especially the ground. is the ground strap on your engine any good? then one other check is to use a no contact thermometer to check the temp of the engine. it should be close to the thermostat when it's warm and running. but wide swinging sounds to me like a gauge. you open the hood when it's running you know it's too hot right now.
 
190 and other issues

I used a 190 thermostat and pretty sure it is is correct. Now, after degreasing the engine, it appears that I may have a real problem as I am blowing blue smoke from between the middle two cylinders on the left side of the engine with fresh oil on the plug wires. Soooo, things are looking bad right now. Perhaps blown head gasket? So along with my cooling issue, smoke, and cracked exhaust manifolds, I think I'll be looking for a good motor man here in town.

Thanks for the info.
 
As a general rule of thumb, take your new thermostate in and put it into a pan of water and bring it up to almost boiling and using a thermometer or your wife's candy thermometer make sure it is opening at the proper range. I run 160 f in most of my old cars and my new one with the computer I have to run a 195 f. Check your owners manual. I have experienced two stants that were new and did not open until 220f. I took them back to Autozone and they didn't believe me until I showed them on a video I took on my phone. If you have a bad hose you can run hot also, until the hose lets go.
 
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