Considered a procar?

Been thinking awhile about starting a legit thread inclusive of different non-tradtionally defined vehicles.

With any luck stimulating discussion (over pot-stirring) will ensue. :thumb:

First up, a Checker with wheelchair access.

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This '39 Delage in a private Belgian museum bears a registration plate from '50. It was rebodied in '47 by Antern as a limo painted plack. Then updated with more current wheels, marker lights, portholes, paint - and possibly used as an ambulance sometime before '50.

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Steve Lichtman

PCS Elected Director 2019 - 2022
Site Supporter
There is a committee that is working, on and off, on the issue of "defining" procars. As you can imagine, it's not exactly clear-cut.

The first, the Checker Medicab, is either a sedan-ambulance or a limo (under the allowance for "New York-style long wheelbase taxis") and would a procar. The second vehicle certainly appears to most-recently have been an ambulance, therefore, in my opinion it would be an ambulance.

Personal opinions only, not those of the committee.
 

Bill Marcy

Super Site Supporter
Super Site Supporter
In my opinion, they would be professional cars. But, I am certain that some will disagree.
 

John ED Renstrom

PCS Member - Elected Director 2017-2021
Super Site Supporter
the checker med car. was a factory conversion of there standard checker car. yes checker made and marketed family sedans, limos and about everything you could think of on there chassis. it would then fit in the conversion car class. like a sedan ambulance. the other car would be either a ambulance or a combo depending on how it is set up. your guessing just looking at a front outside picture.

what we are working on and off on is definitions of cars. we need and want a easy simple way to plug any car into there proper slot and keep it there. in the case of the checker it's a factory built car for a purpose. a little discussion on the raised roof might come up. but I feel it was designed that way not altered from a sedan. so were it was not converted by a aftermarket company it was still a conversion off there sedan line of cars for a wheel chair and if I'm not mistaken they were sedan ambulances also. the other is a custom built car with a altered body that fits our description of a pro car. both of them if judged would loose a number of points but I would still like to see them at any meet
 
'40-'41 Chrysler Newport Phaeton. 5 built by LeBaron on Imperial (or New Yorker?) 145.5" chassis - no 2 were alike. Happens to hold dubious distinction of being only non-production Indy 500 pace car as well.

So given hand built nature and prominence of lucky owners being chauffeured around (Lana Turner was one), procar?

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John ED Renstrom

PCS Member - Elected Director 2017-2021
Super Site Supporter
neat car not a pro car. doesn't fit any category of one it just a more modern dual cowl Phaeton body
 
'40-'41 Chrysler Newport Phaeton.

So given hand built nature and prominence of lucky owners being chauffeured around (Lana Turner was one), procar?

Not really. To be a livery car or limousine means more than just that it's a chauffeur driven, personal luxury car. It takes into account seating capacity in the rear, which would need to be more than three. There's a little more to the definitions, but the point here would be the seating issue.

And for the Checker, yes, it is a pro car. I believe it fell into the 'conversion class' as an invalid car. Here's a restored one that was on eBay a year or two back.
 

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Paul Steinberg

Administrator
Staff member
Super Site Supporter
So is this a professional car? It meets all of the requirements that Adam has given in his reply.....
 

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Jim Staruk

Super Site Supporter
Super Site Supporter
I would agree it fits the definition.

Is there an agreed-upon definition for a "Professional Car"? This is how Wikipedia defines "Professional car":

A professional car in modern times is an automobile that has been modified with extensive coachwork for service in livery transportation (i.e., as a limousine) or in funeral home operations (hearses or flower cars). Professional cars often have longer wheelbases and longer coachwork than their civilian counterparts. Up until 1980 ambulances were also available on professional car chassis, such as those built by Cadillac or Packard. Combination cars, which could be utilized either as an ambulance, a first call vehicle, or as a hearse, were also used.
 
So is this a professional car (AQC Jetway Toronado)? It meets all of the requirements that Adam has given in his reply.....

Not quite sure, but I think not. I don't think we ever really came to a decision on that, because I know some people would include it, while others would not. But I believe the immediate answer would be that they are not professional cars because they were not intended to be, or used as, 'personal' vehicles.
 
Adam, that strikes me as odd! So by default all airport limousines are not procars by PCS rules? Wow. Never even considered that they wouldn't be. Can't grasp that logic. Seems a more natural fit for discussion here than any truck based period unit for example, which is common.

Paul, thanks for bringing up the Jetway 707. I was going to start a new thread looking for info but seems apropos in this one now.

A friend saved this '66 Jetway 707 from the crusher. Literally happened to stop in as yard employees were trying to figure the best way (ie cut or fold in half) to fit in the crushing machine. Turns out it isn't rusty (although it looks like crapola). All the raised commercial glass (yep, raised glass but not a professional car?) is good. Think only pieces missing are exterior windshield trim. He even picked up a clean, tight, low mileage original '66 Tornado as a front clip/drivetrain donor.

So here is the question he wants answered... How/why is this a '66 when 'production' did not start until '68?

Yes, this was a chore fitting the entire 28' in frame~

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Background info from coachbuilt.com here. 1st pic there shows a '66/'67 illustration. Only other '66/'67 on net is the example below (obviously not same Jetway my friend owns), as the rest are all '68s.

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Any knowledge about this or other existing '66/'67 Jetway 707s much appreciated. Owner would love hearing from you.
 
I'm curious about the Jetway too. If there has been discussion as to whether or not it is a professional car, what criteria EXCLUDES it from being one?
 

John ED Renstrom

PCS Member - Elected Director 2017-2021
Super Site Supporter
we are still trying to figure out the buses. can't quite peg them as of yet. may have to limit the number of doors on a limo to do so. same as the yosemite bus added to the caddy pictures. built off a car chassis. is it a limo or a extra big taxie??
 

Steve Lichtman

PCS Elected Director 2019 - 2022
Site Supporter
My feeling is that the airport limos are, indeed, professional cars, as they are coachbuilt livery vehicles even though they didn't serve funeral homes.

So the Jetway would be included......if we could find it a parking space!!!!

We did have one come to the Micro-Meet in Flint a couple years ago, amazing vehicle.
 

Paul Steinberg

Administrator
Staff member
Super Site Supporter
I would guess that the 1966 was in all probability built on a used chassis. It wasn't uncommon for a small body company to start with a used chassis to convert it to something else. Especially if the market was soft, and a factory fresh car was extremely expensive. There is no way to tell how many flower cars might have started life as a regular passenger car in private ownership. Even some of the old advertising literature advertised that they would convert "your existing vehicle".
 

John ED Renstrom

PCS Member - Elected Director 2017-2021
Super Site Supporter
it's quite a story on a American Quality Company. the top brass from Cb yes that's Mr C and Mr B wanted to start doing on the olds toronado chassis but Wayne did not want the competition with there Cadillacs in a already closed market. so Mr C and Mr.B sold there interesting Cb and stated the AQC. built some 150 + units but only the airport limos. never quite got to the Hearses and ambulances they wanted to for what ever reason before the co folded.
now are these and the sageway buses pro cars. not really they were never used in livery service not marketed to that industry at all. there just overgrown taxis. just because it's a car used professionally doesn't make it a pro car for the purposes of our club. superior started out building these kind of rigs. but not everything superior built fits our defenation of a pro car. checker cab is not but a checker med car is. sageway limo is and sageway airport limo is not. a 6 dr limo is in a 105 inch streach J seater is not
 

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Adam, that strikes me as odd! So by default all airport limousines are not procars by PCS rules? Wow. Never even considered that they wouldn't be. Can't grasp that logic. Seems a more natural fit for discussion here than any truck based period unit for example, which is common.

I'm curious about the Jetway too. If there has been discussion as to whether or not it is a professional car, what criteria EXCLUDES it from being one?

Hang on, don't shoot the messenger! :hide:

And sorry, I think the way I worded my last reply is the issue. I'm just saying that there is debate on whether or not these would be included. Some members would say yes, and some would say no. The idea though is that non-personal use cars, such as this, not be included. That's not in stone, just what's been offered as a classification exclusion. Today these cars are included, and occasionally do appear, at our shows.
 
airporter combo?

might be considered a procar if someone converted it into a super stretch hearse that could bring all the pall bearers and family along at the same time like those motorhome hearse monsters..... or a multi stretcher ambulance....
 
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