RIP - 1978 Abbott & Hast Ford hearse

Today we mourn the passing of my car's younger sister. "Junior", as her fathers Ron and Allan had named her, was born in 1978, spent her life in sunny California, and served its citizens for almost 30 years. She was a humble car next to her stable mates, but she sat proud, diligently doing her job year after year. We sadly lost her recently in a tragic motoring accident. The doctors did all they could, but the end was inevitable. Today we reflect on the memory of her spirit, rarity, and uniqueness, and we hope she's now cruising down that long open motorway in the sky...

Okay, seriously though, the car sadly was recently totaled. Brent and his wife are doing okay it sounds like, but the insurance company says the car is a total loss. Back when he had it on eBay earlier this year, there was a dent on the driver's side rear quarter. It didn't sell, so he decided to hang onto it. Shortly after the auction, he was hit on the back passenger side ruining the quarter panel. Well, he got the repairs done to the body, and not quite a month later, they were broadsided on the passenger side. I think this car must have had targets painted on it!

Anyway, he's grabbed a few of the really important and irreplaceable A&H parts off, but there's not much else usable....

Rest in piece old friend, you will be missed!

:cry:
 

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some times bad luck is all you get. so when you find out let us know how they determined the price of the car. but how can a liability claim totale out a car. they owe you for the damage up to the value of the car or a replacement of equal or grater value. but they should not get the salvage.
 
If it were properly insured for a high dollar value, then it wouldn't be totaled. If the damage was not the fault of the owner, then I would push the other drivers insurance company to fix the car, no matter what it costs. It isn't like it was just another common car. It has a historical value as a rare collectible. I had this conversation with my insurance carrier about my car. It is insured for $25,000 agreed value, and the repairs would need to be at least 80% of the $25,000 or $20,000 before they would consider totaling it. This is the problem with collectors and their cars... they think that they can't insure it for more than market value.. Just like your home, you insure the building for what it would cost to repair or replace it, not what it is worth on the open market. Many homes today cost much more to rebuild than they would sell for. As long as the insurance company agrees with the value, then they will accept the premium for that value and pay what it costs to repair the car, up to 80% of that value. If it exceeds the 80%, then they will pay you the total amount of $25,000 and take the car for salvage. Even then, you have the right to buy the car back for its salvage value if you like.
 
Insurance Companies.....

If it were properly insured for a high dollar value, then it wouldn't be totaled. If the damage was not the fault of the owner, then I would push the other drivers insurance company to fix the car, no matter what it costs. It isn't like it was just another common car. It has a historical value as a rare collectible. I had this conversation with my insurance carrier about my car. It is insured for $25,000 agreed value, and the repairs would need to be at least 80% of the $25,000 or $20,000 before they would consider totaling it. This is the problem with collectors and their cars... they think that they can't insure it for more than market value.. Just like your home, you insure the building for what it would cost to repair or replace it, not what it is worth on the open market. Many homes today cost much more to rebuild than they would sell for. As long as the insurance company agrees with the value, then they will accept the premium for that value and pay what it costs to repair the car, up to 80% of that value. If it exceeds the 80%, then they will pay you the total amount of $25,000 and take the car for salvage. Even then, you have the right to buy the car back for its salvage value if you like.

Paul: Unfortunately not all insurance companies play as "fair and square" as you have described. Besides pro-cars, police cars and fire apparatus... we also collect, restore and show Large Class-8 Trucks. In 1977 I bought a 1965 Peterbilt 3-Axle Tractor from our Local CAT Dealer for $10,000.00 who had ordered and purchased it brand new. This was a specially ordered truck with all heavy duty components and one of only four built that year with a factory installed 1693 CAT Motor, furnished by the Dealer. We completely went thru it to (as near) new standards.... valued it, insured it, and paid the premiums based on a true $25,000.00 appraised value. A couple of years later it was hauling a large scraper that broke loose, went up over the gooseneck and smashed the cab.... driver was OK. The insurance company totalled the truck saying that it was only worth $6,500.00 based on what (other) 1965 Petebilts were worth (on their guide). We went thru the whole arm wrestling trauma of why they would charge and accept premiums based on a $25,000.00 value that was re-affirmed annually. After much negotiation, they totalled it for $6,500.00, we bought it back for $500.00 and put another complete used cab on the truck for about $3,500.00. MM
 
Paul: Unfortunately not all insurance companies play as "fair and square" as you have described. Besides pro-cars, police cars and fire apparatus... we also collect, restore and show Large Class-8 Trucks. In 1977 I bought a 1965 Peterbilt 3-Axle Tractor from our Local CAT Dealer for $10,000.00 who had ordered and purchased it brand new. This was a specially ordered truck with all heavy duty components and one of only four built that year with a factory installed 1693 CAT Motor, furnished by the Dealer. We completely went thru it to (as near) new standards.... valued it, insured it, and paid the premiums based on a true $25,000.00 appraised value. A couple of years later it was hauling a large scraper that broke loose, went up over the gooseneck and smashed the cab.... driver was OK. The insurance company totalled the truck saying that it was only worth $6,500.00 based on what (other) 1965 Petebilts were worth (on their guide). We went thru the whole arm wrestling trauma of why they would charge and accept premiums based on a $25,000.00 value that was re-affirmed annually. After much negotiation, they totalled it for $6,500.00, we bought it back for $500.00 and put another complete used cab on the truck for about $3,500.00. MM

Hi Mike, I would be interested in seeing some of your other vehicles, especially the trucks, do you have photos on another site?
 
Mike it sounds like you did Ok. bet the next time you insured the truck you dropped the value and changed companies. dealing with the co reps can be a frustrating task at times. I just would be interesting to find out what they used for value as to me the only value is comparable sales. when some one runs into you it's there liability unless of course they have no insurance. or are under insured like me. "someone has to be". then yours will kick in. but no matter what you had it valued at the other mans co has set a price they think it is worth. the only other fair value would be to set the price at the current value of the ford and add the cost of the modifacation.
 
I just checked with my insurance carrier, Haggerty, and asked the question about "agreed value". I was told that they will pay up to the policy limit of the agreed value to repair the vehicle, if repair is possible. If repair isn't possible, then they will pay the total agreed value for the vehicle, and then take possession of the damaged vehicle. If I, as the insured, want to purchase the salvage from the company, I have that right of first refusal.
 
goes to show if you stay with a established co your better off when disaster strikes. now what will they do for you if someone else runs into you and they want to low ball the value of the car?
 
goes to show if you stay with a established co your better off when disaster strikes. now what will they do for you if someone else runs into you and they want to low ball the value of the car?

Not an issue, since I can claim the accident with my insurance carrier. If the liable persons insurance wants to fight with Haggerty, then that is their right and Haggerty's problem to deal with. I will still get my car fixed or the total amount of the policy. Subrogation is not my problem, but my insurance companies problem to deal with...
 
But here's the question: Is it even repairable? We don't know the extent of the damage here. If the frame is bent or it's quite severely damaged, it may indeed by "totalled". Or if he just chose not to do the work and accept the settlement.

Wow, how does it get wrecked three times in recent times?
 
As the Son of an Insurance Adjuster and having been a Bodyman in a former life I can say the term "Totalled" is very loosely used. Several factors come into play but cutting to the chase of the matter:

In todays world Insurance co's will usually spend up to 80% of a vehicles value to repair it...Wholesale low blue book. Adjustors are measured by their monthly clearance rate...ie Claims closed. Oftentimes the Owners don't want the Cars after so they're damaged. CoParts Auction daily show "Totals" that can be bought right and put back on the road inexpensively. If I had Ed's facilities and know how I'd still be making a good living.

I can remember back in the day I repaired a Pontiac Wagon that had been beefed up by the owner to tow his Airstream. Really, Really hard front hit. Because of it's age it was a "Total" irregardless. Owner insisted it be repaired. Replaced complete Frame, Used front-sheetmetal etc. Without the added equipt it was just an old Pontiac wagon.
 
Collector Car Insurers

I think most, if not all "Collector Car Insurer's" are above board. I know with J.C. Taylor (who we have had from the beginning of pro-car collecting Circa, 1992) a certified appraiser is required if you value your vehicle at over $20,000, and I assume your premimum is based largely on that self-assigned value. They feel it's not likely that you will purposly do "your girl" any harm on her occasional trips to a parade or event just to collect it's value. My previous example of the 1965 Peterbilt was that of a regular commercial policy over 30 years when few people thought of collecting and restoring a large truck..... at least to the degree we did then and do now..... while still regularily, but (carefully) using them commercially. MM
 
I don't know much about insurance, or exactly how it works, but here's what Brent just emailed me:

The estimate was over $12,000. It damaged the front fender, cut both doors open and broke their inner panels, tore the rear door off it hinges, bent the center post and lower door jamb, cracked the windshield, and crushed the rear quarter panel.

Even if $12K is over estimating, judging from that, you know it wouldn't be cheap. And I think it's hard to justify for any owner, repair shop, or insurance company putting 300-400% of the value of a car into fixing it. It's a rare car, just not a valuable one...
 
You are just teasing me. I have been doing collision repair for over 35 years. Are there any pictures of the
wreck?
I'm not a vulture, I just like wrecks. :wwpics:
 
I don't know much about insurance, or exactly how it works, but here's what Brent just emailed me:

The estimate was over $12,000. It damaged the front fender, cut both doors open and broke their inner panels, tore the rear door off it hinges, bent the center post and lower door jamb, cracked the windshield, and crushed the rear quarter panel.

Even if $12K is over estimating, judging from that, you know it wouldn't be cheap. And I think it's hard to justify for any owner, repair shop, or insurance company putting 300-400% of the value of a car into fixing it. It's a rare car, just not a valuable one...

so your saying it took the whole side off. 12,000 worth of damage. but did you ask him how they set the value of the car? damage is just that. but I was just curious as to how they set the value of what the car was worth. could you get a nice condition ford wagon for 12?
 
My mercedes was totalled while with hagerty. It was agreed value but boy did they ever take their time paying it to me and when the vehicle was scrapped they wanted way too much to buy it back considering the damage.
 
My mercedes was totalled while with hagerty. It was agreed value but boy did they ever take their time paying it to me and when the vehicle was scrapped they wanted way too much to buy it back considering the damage.

I just had a clain with Hagerty to get a couple rock chips fixed and I thought they were great, had the check in the mail in less than a week. I know a couple hundred dollar check is nothing like a totaled car, but so far I am very pleased.
 
Car is selling through Copart november 3. I just found on their site and not terrible but see why they totaled it. I bid on it but still outbid, would bid more but shipping from Ca to Ga would be about 1000 which ruins the deal for east coast collectors.
 
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